After loading ammo and using Lube to keep the cases from getting stuck in the die, why does everyone recommend removing the lube on the completed cases? Why are there so many ways and different lubing techniques for loaded ammo? What affect does the lube have on the firearms chamber, barrel, working mechanism if you don't remove the lube compound? What is the recommended way of removing the lubing compound? Should the completed rounds be wiped off with a cloth soaked with Acetone or Thinner? Should the completed rounds just be sprayed with a brake cleaner then wiped off? Seems like a lot of work to me. Let me know why you have to remove the Lube??
LUBE QUESTION???
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troy fairweather
Member
You remove it to keep from contaminating the powder or primer, plus it can get grimy on the outside if not removed.
tominboise
Member
Plus it can increase thrust on the locking lugs, if the brass can't grip the chamber walls as effectively as when clean.
Spare Parts
Member
I pin tumble after sizing in unscented laundry detergent. I use 80W gear oil and iso-heet (1:10), and hate the smell of a burning transmission at the range. 
It's a public service to the guy next to me.
... also what troy and tom said.
It's a public service to the guy next to me.... also what troy and tom said.
Bazoo
Member
You remove the lube so the cartridges aren't greasy to handle, and so they don't pick up dust and dirt if dropped.
You can wipe the lube off with a rag and a squirt of lighter fluid or acetone. You can use water on a rag. You can wash then and let then dry.
You can remove lube my tumbling cases. Which is very fast and easy. If you load rifle cases on a progressive, a quick tumble of the loaded rounds removes the lube.
You can wipe the lube off with a rag and a squirt of lighter fluid or acetone. You can use water on a rag. You can wash then and let then dry.
You can remove lube my tumbling cases. Which is very fast and easy. If you load rifle cases on a progressive, a quick tumble of the loaded rounds removes the lube.
ColtPythonElite
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I don't overlube the cases. I don't remove any lube afterwards. Never had a problem.
Barring a dirty/sandy/dusty environment, there is absolutely no reason to remove case residual sizing lube.
In fact residual case lube mitigates stuck/sticky case extraction AND minimizes case stretch.
(And someone's gonna have to `splain to me how residual case lube gets inside a completed case to contaminate anything)
JFrank
Member
I have trouble with pressure spikes from excess lube or moisture left on rounds.
I Wipe um down
I Wipe um down
Ironicaintit
Member
I lube with Lees paste, and wipe them off after sizing. So long as lube is t clumped on there, I wouldn't worry about it too much
What was your experience/signs that a pressure spike occurred?
JFrank
Member
During a cold morning match I experienced a heavy bolt on several rounds, after that target I started looking at my ammo that had little moisture on them so I wipe them down without further incident. Again last year I discovered some excess lube on some cases after the same symptoms.
I tumble cases after resizing in part to remove the sizing lubricant. I do not like handling greasy cases when reloading.
Besides, generally, I resize and prep cases at one time and then store them away for a future loading session. I want the cases lubricant free during the storage and then later when I am handling them for reloading.
Lately, besides lubricating rifle cases, I've been spritzing handgun cases with alcohol/lanolin lubricant. It makes the resizing process slicker than sn*t. The cases then get cleaned when I tumble them afterwards. Tumbling is easier and lazier than wiping down individual cases with a rag.
Besides, generally, I resize and prep cases at one time and then store them away for a future loading session. I want the cases lubricant free during the storage and then later when I am handling them for reloading.
Lately, besides lubricating rifle cases, I've been spritzing handgun cases with alcohol/lanolin lubricant. It makes the resizing process slicker than sn*t. The cases then get cleaned when I tumble them afterwards. Tumbling is easier and lazier than wiping down individual cases with a rag.
SLAMFIRE... you on?
Buzznrose
Member
Rookie question…do you tumble with dry corncob media?
And is the alcohol lanolin mix a recipe you can share?
I dry tumble the most and use walnut shells, mostly "Lizzard Litter" from the pet stores. It is easy for me to obtain. But corn cob media would work as well.
I do have the capability to wet tumble with stainless pins but do not do that very often. Wet tumbling makes the cases looks great but too time consuming in my opinion for small batches of cases like 100-200 or so.
I've done what ericuda has done or used 91% to 99% isopropyl alcohol from the pharmacy. Liquid lanolin is available on line or at some health stores. A little last a long time depending on how much you reload.
Just remember to give the alcohol time to flash off before you start running cases through your sizing die. The alcohol is a bad lubricant, once it evaporates, the lanolin is left behind.
WeekendReloader
Member
Lee paste lube. 1oz dissolved into 10oz of alcohol in a spray bottle. A few spritzes and a hundred 9mm (or 20 rifle) cases are lubed. Most comes off in the sizing die. No need to remove the lube after loading.
Many in the shooting community would be in total denial if they knew how many cartridges have lubricant coatings, including those black lacquer steel case ammunition. Per Sharpe, the WW2 Germans put a sintered wax coating on the outside of their black lacquer steel case ammunition to facilitate extraction. The fear, hysteria, about leaving case lube goes way back. This is a coverup over a century old. It was created by the US Army to explain why their low number Springfields were blowing up. Or rather, to misdirect the reason their low number M1903's were blowing up. The US Army built over 1 million M1903’s in factories without temperature gauges, or incoming material certification, and anytime heat was applied to the receiver, human eyeballs were judging the temperature. That resulted in a lot of burnt receivers. And since the materials varied so much, things were even worse. When these low number M1903’ blew up, instead of admitting they made and issued defective rifles, the Army lied about the problem, and blamed shooters using “lubricated cases”. It was common in the era to dip the bullet in grease, since the jackets fouled so badly.
I duplicated what these pre WW1 shooters were doing, and guess what, my gun did not blow up!
The grease flowed all around the cases, it is evident with a thick grease the case is floating in grease, as you can see the grease flowed to the extractor groove.
Since it is a century old, it is so old that the leaders of the shooting community have no memory when it started or why. It has also morphed over time to warnings about not lubricating cases because it “increases bolt thrust”
These guys are at least addressing the myth of over lubrication :
In fact, the Bullseye Pistol experts recommend lubricating cases to improve function
When I shot my M1a in highpower competition, I learned from a Distinguished HM not to remove the case lube. He shot one set of cases the entire shooting season, probably about 20 to 30 matches. Normal life of a case in a M1a was around five reloads, then the case head would come off. That guy left his RCBS water soluble lube on. I did not like the greasey feeling of case lube, so I removed it before priming and dumping the power and seating the bullet. For my match ammunition I rubbed Johnson paste wax on my M1a ammunition and shot it that way. The wax positively broke the friction between case and chamber and prevented case head separations.
I fired the stuff 22 times, and stopped, as the primer pockets were getting big. I did not want a dropped primer to cause a jam.
The 276 Pedersen round was coated in a wax.
Fireforming new cases, I regularly lube the case so after firing, I have a perfectly fireformed, stress free case.
You will find the wet lubricants are messy, fingers get dirty, and if the round falls into the dirt, grit collects on the surface. I believe that is the primary reason dry lubricants have been developed, such as the sintered Teflon technology used on Wolf steel case ammunition. However, due to the long established fear and hysteria, all dating back to the Army low number 03 coverup, ammunition companies call these coatings “polymer”
Notice that Wolf calls the stuff a polymer and has stopped calling it a lubricant. This is what Wolf used to say:
Superior Reliability: The application of the polymer creates a precision uniform coating around the casing. It produces a bullet with persistent, uncompromising, stable dimensions thus leading to smooth reliable extractions.
Better Functioning: The superior lubricity improvement eases wear in gun chambers and alleviates excessive operational and maintenance issues associated with rapid firing. The development of this polymer represents a break-through in the field of tribology, and incorporates the most recent chemistry in terms of lubricity improving molecules.
This is what they say now:
Polyformance ammunition will not disappoint! Wolf coats all of their ammunition with a polymer coating to ensure smooth feeding and extraction putting the shooters mind at ease with less jamming. The coating on the ammunition allows for the ammunition to have a lengthier long term shortage time in comparison to different manufacturers
I am certain they have stopped alluding to Polyformance as a lubricant because the extreme reaction they got from those who believe greases and oils will "increase bolt thrust". Those same individuals don't know that greases and oils are polymers, and so is teflon. Wolf changes the name, and the screaming goes away.
JFrank
Member
I’ve seen your posts with this lubing style before , pretty interesting how this never gums up your actions or builds pressure, just a guess that it may be related to the chamber clearances? I could only image the havoc it would cause in mine.
I would look for other reasons
JFrank
Member
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lightman
Member
I degrease my brass because thats what the loading books and gun writers used to tell you. And I don't want the dirt and grit that lube can attract. And it just makes sense to me! Many loading processes have different ways that they can be done. Just try a few different methods until you find one that suits you. I remove lube by laying the resized brass out on a folded up towel and spray it with brake cleaner. Then I tumble it it in Wash and Wax and citric acid. I used to have a solvent can and strainer like mechanics used to use when rebuilding carburetors. I kept Acetone in it and it worked well. And you can tumble them to remove the lube. There is just a certain amount of work to reloading.
I apply gross amounts of grease lubricants for cartridges used in pictures. And so, their appearance is closer to an ice cream cone than a cartridge. With that amount of lubricant, yes, there is a lot of grease that gets pushed back into the action. Examples
Once I dropped gobs of stick wax (don't use stick wax, it sticks to everything!) in a plastic baggie filled with CAVIM 7.62. I shook the cartridges and stick wax together and had thick gobs of stick wax on the cases. Way too much stick wax, for when I loaded the ammunition and fired it in a FAL, it was raining white stick wax. Got all over my glasses, hands, gun, etc. It was a huge mess. I tried wiping the ammunition down, and that helped, but stick wax is designed not to come off saw blades, wiping just knocked down the high points, and it was impossible to dissolve the stuff, . It is possible to have too much of a good thing.
for high pressure delayed blowback actions, the problem was always that greased ammunition had to be greased before hand, and kept clean.
I will bet these machine cannon smelt like burnt grease after firing. You can imagine 800 rounds a minute, things got a little hot, and that burnt grease was floating in the air.
for guns with oilers, you had to carry an oil bottle
Nambu oil tank
and they had to be messy. Called Oil a matics!
ever fired a roller bolt mechanism?, the things are filthy. There is a lot of carbon and powder residue left in the action.
but, I believe the increased cyclic rate, and parts reduction is why these chamber fluted roller bolts were developed. And instead of oil or grease, the chamber flutes used gas lubrication to float the upper 2/3 rds of the cartridge.
But, my PTR 91 is a messy gun. Lots of soot to clean and the chamber has to cleaned with a chamber brush to ensure the flutes are not clogged. Which happens with ammunition with tar sealants or very dirty gunpowders. Roller bolt ammunition has to be cleaner than gas port ammunition.
I never had any real dirt issues using waxed ammunition. Wax is very clean, leaves very little residue. And, if I were not in the habit of dipping and twisting grease around the bullet, I could end up with a much cleaner mechanism. If you size the case, then prime it, seat the bullet and dump the powder, what is left on the outside of the case is a very slight grease layer. Not much more than the grease on your fingers from eating pizza. If you were to handle my cases, the ones I never removed the case lube, they would feel slightly greasy. It is surprising how little lubricant is needed for lubrication. I will bet that an oil coating in the thousands of an inch is enough to break the friction between case and chamber. I have had shoulder dents with bullet dipping with my 6.5 X 55 Swede. The dents stopped after smoothing the grease. The Swede has a sharper shoulder than most of my cartridges and so, it probably would have been better to roll the cases in an oily rag, such as Clark shows for 22 lr.
I am skeptical about the 1921 Army claims that grease somehow pinches the bullet. Grease flows, and it flows back over the case as the case expands. Cases are thin in the front, thick in the back, so grease is squeezed back out the action. The huge amount of grease I put on, most of it goes up the barrel. I see grease plumes over the front sight with excessive greasing. Not that it hurts anything, in fact, with one chrome lined barrel, it prevents jacket fouling. Blow enough grease up the tube and a lubricant layer keeps the bullet from rubbing. I have seen it. Mind you, everything the shooting community has been taught about lubricated cases, was a coverup dating back to 1921, a lot of water has flowed under that bridge, but our educators, that is gunwriters, few of them have advanced since then. They uncritically repeat an Army coverup over a century old, because they really don't know firearm history, and they don't know firearm design. They can eat cake, but they can't bake cake. And of course, because we believe those in print are absolute authorities, these ideas get fixed in the shooting society.
For those worried about oil on the case, don't shoot after eating pizza and wear cotton gloves. And don't shoot prone slow fire out in the sun during the summer. In NRA competition, wearing that stupid quilted coat, in the sun, I would perspire so much that sweat dripped down my hand. And my fingers were so sweaty I could not pick up a 308 case from my ammo box by grasping the bullet or case neck. My fingers were so slick, the cartridge would fall off. Once I had to break position, then rearrange my ammunition so the base was up, and I could grasp the case with a finger nail in the extractor groove. Obviously my natural body oils were coating the cases before the round was chambered.
After twenty two rounds in the hot sun, we across the course shooters would strip off our quilted coat, and remove the sweat shirt underneath. And that sweat shirt was wet! Dark wet spots under the arm pits, and sticky everywhere else.
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