Luger
- Thread starter Yohan
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It works by a toggle action (your knee joint, laid flat). That circular knob thing is wear you grasp the toggle action and pull up to open the action. Lugers have a great "feel" to them but the ones I owned were not all that accurate, the rear site is really poor. Lugers can be fired even with the action removed from the grip. The sear is located along the side above the trigger unprotected, all you have to do is press it and boom! I've read that many a luger owner has shot himself due to this "faulty" design. Shooters go for about $350 and up. Just type Luger pistol keyword and you should get plenty of information.
Thumper
Member
http://hosting.themib.com/luger/luger.html
http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/military/weapons-german-luger.html
http://www.wterrell.com/index2.html
No offense, but for someone who doesn't seem to know a heck of a lot about guns, you espouse some pretty strong opinions.
Edited to say that I was probably worse at your age.
http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/military/weapons-german-luger.html
http://www.wterrell.com/index2.html
No offense, but for someone who doesn't seem to know a heck of a lot about guns, you espouse some pretty strong opinions.
Edited to say that I was probably worse at your age.
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,831
Yohan,
Check out
http://www.lugerforum.com/
For all your questions and answers
Probably should be moved to Handguns or Semi-Auto, doncha think?
Adios
Check out
http://www.lugerforum.com/
For all your questions and answers
Probably should be moved to Handguns or Semi-Auto, doncha think?
Adios
I'm quite impressed with the accuracy of my 6" Navy Luger.
True, the sights are rather weak compared to modern Bo-Mars or Novaks, but the gun is the most natural-pointing and accurate of the 9mm's in the collection. As for how the action works:
True, the sights are rather weak compared to modern Bo-Mars or Novaks, but the gun is the most natural-pointing and accurate of the 9mm's in the collection. As for how the action works:
Thumper
Member
Depends on what you mean, podna.
A Glock probably saved me and my Mom's lives in '92. I think they're pretty darned gorgeous.
A Glock probably saved me and my Mom's lives in '92. I think they're pretty darned gorgeous.
Accuracy: I disagree that the Luger is inaccurate. The two I've fired extensively have been as accurate as a Colt Gold Cup and much more pointable. You do have to draw the front sight down into the tiny groove but German guns of that vintage have some of the most abominable sights I've ever seen. Ever check out a mauser 98?
Thumper
Member
I agree that the Luger design can be VERY accurate, depending on the pistol.
I owned one of the Stoeger Lugers released a few years back. Traded it for something I couldn't live without (don't remember what.) Anyway, that particular pistol was easily a two inch gun out of the box, even with the subpar sights.
The Luger was one of the most "pointable" pistols made.
I owned one of the Stoeger Lugers released a few years back. Traded it for something I couldn't live without (don't remember what.) Anyway, that particular pistol was easily a two inch gun out of the box, even with the subpar sights.
The Luger was one of the most "pointable" pistols made.
Thumper
Member
Bare or bear?
Public schools...
Public schools...
Tamara
Senior Member
A friend once described the Luger as "The perfect pistol, should you ever get into a gunfight in a microchip-assembly cleanroom."
Hand_Rifle_Guy
Member
Gewehr 98, your animated GIF isn't very accurate. I don't suppose that's your fault, though.
When fired, the barrel and extension moves back with the toggle locked for about 1/4 inch, where-upon the "Grasping knobs" at the toggle joint hit the inclined ramps at the back of the frame and are popped up, which unlocks the toggle. I think leftover momentum, as opposed to blowback, (I could be wrong, as I'm not a Luger expert. I say this because Lugers are notoriously picky, and dislike light loads.) cycles the breechblock to extract, eject, and feed a fresh round.
The GIF shows the toggle moving as soon as the gun fires, before the knobs hit the ramps, which it DOESN'T do, or it wouldn't be a locked-breech auto.
A neat picture sequence, but misleading, unfortunately set-up by someone who's never played with the real thing and doesn't quite get how the mechanism works. a picture's worth a lot of words, but it helps if it's correct. 
I don't suppose that's your fault, though.When fired, the barrel and extension moves back with the toggle locked for about 1/4 inch, where-upon the "Grasping knobs" at the toggle joint hit the inclined ramps at the back of the frame and are popped up, which unlocks the toggle. I think leftover momentum, as opposed to blowback, (I could be wrong, as I'm not a Luger expert. I say this because Lugers are notoriously picky, and dislike light loads.) cycles the breechblock to extract, eject, and feed a fresh round.
The GIF shows the toggle moving as soon as the gun fires, before the knobs hit the ramps, which it DOESN'T do, or it wouldn't be a locked-breech auto.
A neat picture sequence, but misleading, unfortunately set-up by someone who's never played with the real thing and doesn't quite get how the mechanism works. a picture's worth a lot of words, but it helps if it's correct.
My experience with Lugers has been very positive. I bought a "VOPO" rework as a shooter about six years ago and have never had a malfunction. Of course I only shoot FMJ, never tried hollow points as the gun was not designed for it. I don't think the design is faulty, I just think that as firearm technology improved, better designs were brought to the market. By the way, my Luger is one of my most accurate pistol.
Hand_Rifle_Guy, I agree.
I just inserted the graphic to show how the toggle operated in response to Yohan's original question. The unlocking is a bit premature on the animation, with the toggle popping up before the barrel/upper receiver are even close to the frame ramps. Serves me right for borrowing a graphic from the web, without making my own, I hope I can be forgiven for doing so. I gotta put Zen & the Art of Animated GIF Creation on my to-do list one of these days!
My own VOPO/Navy Luger restoration has been surprisingly reliable, but only after I made darn certain my handloads were of the proper C.O.L., and I stayed with the 115gr FMJ loads as cautioned by Mr. John Martz. (Legendary among Luger pistolsmiths)
I just inserted the graphic to show how the toggle operated in response to Yohan's original question. The unlocking is a bit premature on the animation, with the toggle popping up before the barrel/upper receiver are even close to the frame ramps. Serves me right for borrowing a graphic from the web, without making my own, I hope I can be forgiven for doing so. I gotta put Zen & the Art of Animated GIF Creation on my to-do list one of these days!
My own VOPO/Navy Luger restoration has been surprisingly reliable, but only after I made darn certain my handloads were of the proper C.O.L., and I stayed with the 115gr FMJ loads as cautioned by Mr. John Martz. (Legendary among Luger pistolsmiths)
H
Handy
Guest
The Luger, and similar designs, should be accurate. While the barrel does recoil, it is not floating inside a slide. The majority of the top end is one piece, so it has every reason to behave like a fixed barrel pistol, accuracy wise.
The Luger, like the 1911, P.38, Beretta 92, etc., is a locked breech, recoil operated pistol. The recoil operation is usually termed "short recoil", unlike a Browning A5 shotgun or a Frommer Stop, which are "long recoil".
What this means is that the barrel and breechblock are locked together in battery. When the bullet begins to move forward, the barrel-breechblock unit begins to move back. In the Luger, they remain locked together until the knobs strike the sloped surface of the grip piece, kicking the toggle upward and unlocking it from the barrel extension. Momemtum carries the breechblock the rest of the way to its fully rearward position, and the "bounce" off the grip piece plus the energy stored in the recoil spring returns it to battery, picking up a fresh round from the magazine on the way.
In spite of misunderstandings, it is recoil, not gas pressure itself, that operates all these guns. If the bullet does not move, the gun does not function.
The Luger always had problems. It is very accurate, poor sights notwithstanding, but has always had a problem in power balance and in closing power. It is not a tolerant gun and operates well only in a fairly narrow range of bullet momentum (velocity x mass). Closing has been a problem from day one; the shape and angle of the grip are not the work of a human engineering genius as most think, but Luger's desperate attempt to get more downward leverage in a spring arrangement that was more inclined to push forward.
I wouldn't take one to a cat fight, as the cats would probably win while I was trying to clear jams. But I love them; they are the product of another age.
Jim
What this means is that the barrel and breechblock are locked together in battery. When the bullet begins to move forward, the barrel-breechblock unit begins to move back. In the Luger, they remain locked together until the knobs strike the sloped surface of the grip piece, kicking the toggle upward and unlocking it from the barrel extension. Momemtum carries the breechblock the rest of the way to its fully rearward position, and the "bounce" off the grip piece plus the energy stored in the recoil spring returns it to battery, picking up a fresh round from the magazine on the way.
In spite of misunderstandings, it is recoil, not gas pressure itself, that operates all these guns. If the bullet does not move, the gun does not function.
The Luger always had problems. It is very accurate, poor sights notwithstanding, but has always had a problem in power balance and in closing power. It is not a tolerant gun and operates well only in a fairly narrow range of bullet momentum (velocity x mass). Closing has been a problem from day one; the shape and angle of the grip are not the work of a human engineering genius as most think, but Luger's desperate attempt to get more downward leverage in a spring arrangement that was more inclined to push forward.
I wouldn't take one to a cat fight, as the cats would probably win while I was trying to clear jams. But I love them; they are the product of another age.
Jim
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