Lyman's 49th Edition?

[Bobson]

I picked up my first reloading manual, Lyman 49th Edition, a few days back. Up until now, I've been studying the chapters that preface the load data, just trying to learn the process, etc. Today I flipped over to the load data for 9mm Luger, because this is the caliber I'll be starting with. I was a bit surprised to find that the manual only has load data for the following jacketed bullets:

1. 90gr JHP
2. 95gr FMJ
3. 115gr JHP
4. 125gr JHP (125??)
5. 147gr TMJ

My first impression is that only the 115gr JHP and 147gr TMJ loads are going to be of any use at all. Who loads 90 or 95gr bullets for 9mm? I've never even heard of those offered in factory ammo, and have never seen the bullets for sale from a component manufacturer (Montana Gold, etc). Similarly, I've never heard of a 125gr 9mm bullet, whether FMJ, JHP, or anything else - before now. The manual does specifically say the 125gr JHP is Sierra #8125, so I guess I know that, but really don't see myself pursuing Sierra for one specific, obscure offering.

I've got a couple of questions.

1. Why doesn't the manual have anything for 124gr bullets of any type? Isn't that the most common (original design) bullet weight for 9mm Luger? The fact that it lists 125gr but not 124gr is borderline annoying, unless of course they're interchangeable - but I have the feeling they're not.

2. Does using the exact bullet given in the load data actually matter? For example, the load data for the 115gr JHP is a Hornady XTP. Could I use the same data for a different 115gr bullet - say, a Montana Gold 115gr FMJ, JHP, or CMJ? And does this rule apply equally to all bullets - rifle or pistol - of all weights?

I appreciate the help. Not looking to lose fingers.

 

[rcmodel]

But they are.
Except for exact bullet shape.
125 - 124 = 1 grain.
Or in other words, the same weight.


No manual can list every bullet weight ever made for every caliber.
It would be about the size of a set of encyclopedias if they did.
And could not ever get done testing loads fast enough to keep up with new bullets coming out every time you turn around.

Regardless of all that?
More data is available free from all the powder manufactures for other bullets.
Use your manual, read between the lines, paying very close attention to bullet shape.
(You cannot sub RN for SWC or HBWC bullets for instance.)

Then cross-reference what you think is right from another manual or powder manufactures web-site.

rc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Why doesn't the manual have anything for 124gr bullets of any type? Isn't that the most common (original design) bullet weight for 9mm Luger?

Because the difference between a 124gr and 125gr jacketed bullet in the 9mm is meaningless. If you look at the Hodgdon load data they list mostly 125gr bullets in the 9mm too.

The slight differences between 125gr or 124gr bullets is covered by the fact the manuals list a LOAD RANGE, not 1 charge weight. Start low and work up looking for pressure sighs from you bullet/powder combination. It's impossible for 1 manual to cover all the bullets made in the world. If you use mostly Hornady bullets buy the Hornady manual if that makes you feel better but it's not necessary.

 

[Bobson]

Use your manual, read between the lines, paying very close attention to bullet shape.
(You cannot sub RN for SWC or HBWC bullets for instance.)

Hmm. Interesting. I would have thought the 1gr difference from 125gr to 124gr would make a more significant difference than swapping a RN bullet for a SWC.

Does this also apply to types like FMJ, JHP, etc? IE, FMJ and JHP are not interchangeable.

 

[savanahsdad]

I have Lyman #45, #47 #48 and #49 all have great info in them and a must have for cast stuff , however there the last book I grab when looking for load data , as the seem to list everything that I don't use , they're great for old and odd ball stuff , I think I grab the #45 the most, as that is the only one with 32rem data in it , , like rc said download the free stuff from the powder manufactures , for rifle loads I tend to stick with the bullet manufactures books , Sierra , Hornady, Speer, and for other odd ball stuff or bulk bullets, I use loaddata.com, you could print off a small phone book size load manual for any one cal, by powder, by bullet gr, by start loads or by max loads ,

I know just starting out you don't want to spend $1,000 on books , so I would go join loaddata.com and go to the powder sites and get the free stuff too



just wondering ,, why did you just start with Lyman#49 ?

,

 

[savanahsdad]

Hmm. Interesting. I would have thought the 1gr difference from 125gr to 124gr would make a more significant difference than swapping a RN bullet for a SWC.

no , because those 3 bullets will have a great difference in bearing surface than just a bullet of 1gr higher as long as the 1gr is with the same shape bullet you will be ok

 

[LiveLife]

This probably won't be in any manual ...

Many jacketed bullet weights vary around 1 grain.

Many plated bullet weights vary around 1-3 grains.

Many lead bullet weights vary around 3-5+ grains.

I interchange load data for 124 and 125 gr bullet weight if they are the same bullet nose type (FMJ for FMJ, JHP for JHP, etc.).

 

[Bobson]

just wondering ,, why did you just start with Lyman#49 ?

Like you said, I didn't want to spend any more than necessary on books right off the bat. I knew I wanted just one book for now, and I wanted to get a book that had all the introductory info - mandatory equipment, suggested optional equipment, detailed explanation of the process, etc. This book is some-odd 460 pages, but the first 100+ are all that intro stuff, and I like how the authors put it together.

I know many people recommend the ABCs of Reloading as a first book, and I considered it. I read reviews on Amazon for both books, and while there are many 5s for both, the 1-star reviews for the ABCs of Reloading just really left me feeling like I'd be unhappy with the purchase.

Also, I searched THR for "best reloading manual" or something to that effect, and it seemed like many people recommended the Lyman manual in THR's many, "If you could only have one of X" threads. That settled it for me.

I would have thought the 1gr difference from 125gr to 124gr would make a more significant difference than swapping a RN bullet for a SWC.

no , because those 3 bullets will have a great difference in bearing surface than just a bullet of 1gr higher as long as the 1gr is with the same shape bullet you will be ok

I interchange load data for 124 and 125 gr bullet weight if they are the same bullet nose type (FMJ for FMJ, JHP for JHP, etc.).

Thanks guys, I got it. FMJ is not interchangeable with JHP, etc.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

On a regular basis there are people on this forum who ask about using 90 gr bullets in 9mm. The 90 gr was designed for the 380 ACP, but can be used in the 9mm.

As for loading data, be skeptical and trust no one. Especially sites where people can post loading data. Always confirm data with either a manufacturer website or a manual. If there is a discrepancy I go with the manufacturer website, that is usually the most up-to-date data.

 

[savanahsdad]

[QUOTE
Thanks guys, I got it. FMJ is not interchangeable with JHP, etc.[/QUOTE]



well ..... this is where it can get confusing ,, Lyman list the JHP witch has more bearing surface than a FMJ because it has to be longer than the FMJ to get the same weight , so yes you can use Lyman's data for the JHP with a FMJ but not the other way , if you take a max load for a FMJ and use a longer JHP your PSI may be too high , confused yet being new to this I would recommend finding data that matches your bullet ,

 

[savanahsdad]

Like you said, I didn't want to spend any more than necessary on books right off the bat. I knew I wanted just one book for now, and I wanted to get a book that had all the introductory info - mandatory equipment, suggested optional equipment, detailed explanation of the process, etc. This book is some-odd 460 pages, but the first 100+ are all that intro stuff, and I like how the authors put it together.

I know many people recommend the ABCs of Reloading as a first book, and I considered it. I read reviews on Amazon for both books, and while there are many 5s for both, the 1-star reviews for the ABCs of Reloading just really left me feeling like I'd be unhappy with the purchase.

yep Lyman #49 is a great book (I got the hardcover ) but I would have said get the ABC"S . and I have well over $1,000. in load manuals , book, and magazines and never bought anything from Amazon or left a review anywhere , I got by for years with Lee's first book , and a few caliber only books , you can get them for about $9 and there great ,

a few month back a High Road member asked the same thing , " Why dose THR members say get the #49 when the data sucks" (his words) truth is everything in there is good , it's just that the data is limited , I always say it is a must have. but not for a first book , and the ABC's don't have much for data either but I feel it is laid out better and a better read ,

 

[Potatohead]

I didn't get much out of the ABCs book myself. If you're interested in loading pistol, I found "Reloading for Handgunners" by Patrick Sweeney to be really helpful.

The Lyman49 9mm data is very limited. I would be glad to Pay It Forward, (ABCs or RFH) and pass it on to you, as another reloader here gave me my first manual. PM me an address and it's yours. I'm a little bored of pistol at the moment

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

I really like #49. It's especially useful if you like to use cast bullets. I think I have six manuals, but if I could only keep one, it'd be #49.

 

[GT1]

Yep, the lyman gets a lot of praise, yet sucks mightily for load data. I still don't get it. *shrug*
If I was forced to keep one it would be the Lee. But since I'm not I spend more time cross checking online with the books I have.
I like the guides that most powder manufacturers will send out with orders too. I believe they are all listed at powder valley, graf's, etc.

 

[nix4me]

I agree that the Lyman manual is the worst of the printed manuals i own.

 

[35 Whelen]

<snip>
Many lead bullet weights vary around 3-5+ grains.
<snip>

WOW! Where do you get your lead bullets??? It's very rare for bullet weights from my 4-cavity moulds to vary much over .5 gr. +/-.

I've been loading for nigh on 30 years now and pretty much the same couple dozen calibers. As such, I don't refer to manuals very often, preferring to use loaddata.com, but I wouldn't be without the Lyman 49th Edition. It's by far the most comprehensive manual I've ever seen both in data and in instructional information.

35W

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

I could definitely get by with nothing but Lyman's 49th and Sierra's 5th. The others are nice to have, but I would feel comfortable with just those two.

 

[MustGoFaster]

I picked up the ABC's of Reloading and Lyman 49th as my first two books. I would have to say either or would be sufficient. While you do pick up little bits of different information from each source, it does get a little repetitive.

As for bullet weight differences and load data, my understanding is that lighter bullets take more powder (at max load). They need more gas produced in the (expanding) chamber, to make pressure, to push the bullet down the barrel. This is because a lighter projectile accelerates more given the same pressure and area. Area is fixed by the barrel.

So taking load data from 125gr and using it on 124gr bullets is adding to the "safety factor" involved. As long as the bullets are of similar construction, RN FMJ for example.

That said, taking 125gr data and applying it to something 8% different like a 115gr might be inadvisable. 125 vs 124 is 0.8% different.

 

[LiveLife]

Many lead bullet weights vary around 3-5+ grains.

WOW! Where do you get your lead bullets??? It's very rare for bullet weights from my 4-cavity moulds to vary much over .5 gr. +/-.

Where do I get my lead bullets? ... Hmmmm let me see ...

I think commercial cast bullets won't match the weight variance of hand poured lead bullets from the same alloy mix. Most commercial lead bullet weights are fairly consistent within 1-2 gr majority of the times but I have seen variance up to 3-5+ gr.

Fortunately, the slight weight variance don't seem to affect accuracy as much as powder charge variance.


As to OP's question, I consider Lyman #49 to be a very good manual, particularly for new reloaders starting out for the reloading steps outlined in the beginning of the manual. Since powder manufacturers publish significant amount of load data, I would like to have another source that has load data not published by powder manufacturers, especially lead loads, which Lyman #49 provides.

 

[rchery59]

Yep, the lyman gets a lot of praise, yet sucks mightily for load data. I still don't get it. *shrug*
If I was forced to keep one it would be the Lee. But since I'm not I spend more time cross checking online with the books I have.
I like the guides that most powder manufacturers will send out with orders too. I believe they are all listed at powder valley, graf's, etc.

I also think the Lee manual is better than the Lyman, I have a bunch of manuals old and new, the Lee has the most load data of all

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The Lee manual is just a re-print of data from powder and bullet sites. I like the Lyman manuals a lot, both the 49th Edition and the Cast Bullet Manual 4th Edition.

 

[Bobson]

I would be glad to Pay It Forward, (ABCs or RFH) and pass it on to you, as another reloader here gave me my first manual. PM me an address and it's yours. I'm a little bored of pistol at the moment

Wow, thank you. I'd love the pistol one, as that's definitely going to be where I start. PM inbound.

 

[Trailduster79]

I have loaded 95 grn for 9mm just because it is the same bullet I load for my .380. I can save a little money if I only buy one bullet.......

 

[mgmorden]

.380 and 9mm use the same width bullet - 0.356". The load data for 90 and 95gr bullets is in there in case you want to load bullets meant for .380 in 9mm. Similarly, if you look at the .380 section, you'll likely see loads for 115gr bullets even though you never see factory .380 ammo loaded at that weight.

That's one of the beauties of handloading - you can make combinations and such that you generally just don't find on the shelves.

 

[Potatohead]

Wow, thank you. I'd love the pistol one, as that's definitely going to be where I start. PM inbound.

PM returned