LiveLife
Member
Last time I checked, this was still the "High Road" forum, not "Low Road" forum.
Many new shooters and reloaders coming to THR are not engineers and may not have any idea what may be safe or not safe shooting/reloading practice. I think the "High Road" message for us to convey is if anyone experiences catastrophic failure such as frame damage, instead of attempting repair by oneself, to contact the manufacturer and follow their recommendations. The original post of this thread updated what happened to the other thread that discussed the possible "root cause" of the catastrophic failure of the pistol/cartridge where the owner decided to go against the decision/recommendation of the gun manufacturer (FYI, the owner also reloaded the round that caused the catastrophic failure).
When the owner of the pistol contacted S&W, they declined to replace the frame and recommended a new pistol. We have no idea exactly what information was exchanged between S&W and the owner of the pistol. We only know that S&W declined the repair/replacement of the frame under warranty. The "High Road" thing to do is to support the decision/recommendation of the gun manufacturer (as they obviously would know more about the gun than any of us and we are working with limited second hand information). The "Low Road" thing to do is to say, "Sure, go against the decision/recommendation of the gun manufacturer and keep shooting your questionable reloads in the gun you glued together because the next catastrophic failure won't hurt you much." That would be the wrong message to convey to new shooters/reloaders.
Why? Because none of us on this forum truly knows to what extent the various pistol parts were damaged. Were the metal parts professionally tested for damage? No. Were the frame repairs tested to see at what pressure thresholds the repairs would break? No. Other than looking at the pictures posted, we are only guessing at what truly happened to the pistol. Most owners of catastrophic failures have broken parts/frame/pistol replaced so if another catastrophic failure occurred, "known" good parts would take the pressures. If another double charge/bullet setback/case failure-rupture etc. occurs with this damaged/repaired/glued pistol, do any of us know for certain exactly how the gun parts will behave? I don't. Do you? How can you be sure?
Here are some KaBoom threads where metal parts separated from the pistol and polymer frames did more than just blow out the magazine:
Glock 22 KaBoom (frame cracked) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=639690
1911 KaBoom (barrel part blown out) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=703863
22LR pistol KaBoom (missing extractor) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=692505
Glock KaBoom - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7992473#post7992473
These are just a few range rules I found - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=firing+range+rules
- The range officer has the authority to and will inspect all firearms and ammunition and will ban their use if in their judgment they are unsafe, not in good working order
- All guns used on the range must be in safe operating condition and used only with the proper ammunition
- Range Safety Officers have the right to inspect any firearms or ammunition at any time
- Be sure that your firearm is safe to operate and know how to operate it safely
- All guns and ammunition will be inspected for cleanliness, workability, and saftey prior to entering the range
Many new shooters and reloaders coming to THR are not engineers and may not have any idea what may be safe or not safe shooting/reloading practice. I think the "High Road" message for us to convey is if anyone experiences catastrophic failure such as frame damage, instead of attempting repair by oneself, to contact the manufacturer and follow their recommendations. The original post of this thread updated what happened to the other thread that discussed the possible "root cause" of the catastrophic failure of the pistol/cartridge where the owner decided to go against the decision/recommendation of the gun manufacturer (FYI, the owner also reloaded the round that caused the catastrophic failure).
When the owner of the pistol contacted S&W, they declined to replace the frame and recommended a new pistol. We have no idea exactly what information was exchanged between S&W and the owner of the pistol. We only know that S&W declined the repair/replacement of the frame under warranty. The "High Road" thing to do is to support the decision/recommendation of the gun manufacturer (as they obviously would know more about the gun than any of us and we are working with limited second hand information). The "Low Road" thing to do is to say, "Sure, go against the decision/recommendation of the gun manufacturer and keep shooting your questionable reloads in the gun you glued together because the next catastrophic failure won't hurt you much." That would be the wrong message to convey to new shooters/reloaders.
Why? Because none of us on this forum truly knows to what extent the various pistol parts were damaged. Were the metal parts professionally tested for damage? No. Were the frame repairs tested to see at what pressure thresholds the repairs would break? No. Other than looking at the pictures posted, we are only guessing at what truly happened to the pistol. Most owners of catastrophic failures have broken parts/frame/pistol replaced so if another catastrophic failure occurred, "known" good parts would take the pressures. If another double charge/bullet setback/case failure-rupture etc. occurs with this damaged/repaired/glued pistol, do any of us know for certain exactly how the gun parts will behave? I don't. Do you? How can you be sure?
Here are some KaBoom threads where metal parts separated from the pistol and polymer frames did more than just blow out the magazine:
Glock 22 KaBoom (frame cracked) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=639690
1911 KaBoom (barrel part blown out) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=703863
22LR pistol KaBoom (missing extractor) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=692505
Glock KaBoom - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7992473#post7992473
You posted you were a range officer for 10 years. If you saw a pistol suffer similar catastrophic failure and the shooter came back after gluing the parts back together, would you allow that pistol to be shot next to another person in the firing line? Doesn't all ranges require some sort of "All firearms must be in safe operating condition" rule? And doesn't the range officer have the responsibility to ensure safety of all shooters at the range?sexybeast said:
These are just a few range rules I found - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=firing+range+rules
- The range officer has the authority to and will inspect all firearms and ammunition and will ban their use if in their judgment they are unsafe, not in good working order
- All guns used on the range must be in safe operating condition and used only with the proper ammunition
- Range Safety Officers have the right to inspect any firearms or ammunition at any time
- Be sure that your firearm is safe to operate and know how to operate it safely
- All guns and ammunition will be inspected for cleanliness, workability, and saftey prior to entering the range
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