M1 Carbine for home defense?

[Zeede]

In my ever expanding quest for historically interesting/home defense/medium range target shooting rifles (plus the fact that .223 guns are few and far between here in California) I've come across the Auto Ordnance reproductions of the M1 Carbine. The only thing I'm not sure of is the accuracy of these new guns, the reliability, and the ballstic properties of the round it's chambered for. What do y'all think, is it doable?

Cameron

P.S. I'm about ready to give up and just set my sights on a CZ 527 in .223. Yes it's bolt action, but I won't miss with the first shot, and that should give me enough time to work the bolt for a second shot.

 

[yokel]

My National Postal Meter M1 Carbine is always at the ready here at home. Light, compact, powerful and certainly preferable to any bolt gun when it comes to quick followup shots or confronting multiple assailants.

 

[FMJMIKE]

My home defense weapons are a USGI M1 Carbine and a RIA 1911. I like the USGI carbines better than the AO version. The AO carbine just felt cheap to me. Get the USGI M1 Carbine. It is a better rifle and is soaked with history.

 

[M2 Carbine]

IMO the Carbine makes a fine HD rifle. A 110 grain JSP bullet doing 2,000 FPS is more than enough for the job.

I haven't had anything to do with the Kahr Carbines but if they are as well made as my Kahr Thompson they should be OK.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

There have been several recent threads discussing M1 Carbines, including for HD. Here's my Rock Ola, setup with a red dot and a light on an Ultimak mount:

 

[MrAcheson]

Yes it's bolt action, but I won't miss with the first shot, and that should give me enough time to work the bolt for a second shot.

Don't assume. Bad initial assumptions make for bad situations.

I like my AO M1. Going with a USGI carbine instead of the AO is certainly an option, but keep in mind that some of the GI M1s out there are in the "very used" category. If they were in good shape when they came back into the US, they certainly aren't now after being shot for decades. I bought the AO because all the USGI M1s in my area were either incredibly overpriced or had been shot to crap.

I'd certainly consider the M1 with a good JSP for home defense. Honestly, I prefer my AR-15 or my mossberg though.

 

[buck00]

So where do the BBs go in your M1 Carbine?

I would stick to .45 or a shotgun for home defense pal.

 

[shadowalker]

M1 Carbine makes a fine self defense weapon, at around 2100 fps / 1080 ft /lb of energy the 30 carbine is more capable than handguns.

It was intended to give people a lightweight weapon with more power and range than the 45 ACP, there is no reason it can't fill that roll today just as well as it did then.

The potential problem would be length, which you also run into with shotguns.

 

[Gustav]

The M1 carbine is a great rifle for you and your needs.
Many still are used today and with soft point or hollow point ammunition for close range it will serve should the need arise.
Being restricted to what you can and can't own in the PRK brother I can feel your pain.
One of the reasons we all moved out years ago is Californistan lacks true freedom.
Within the limitations of its round it does the job.
My dad carried and used one in WW II he said for close range it did ok although he preferred a BAR or Garand.
Jim Cirillo used one during his time in NYPD
Audie Murphy was quite fond of his
John C George preferred it to many other weapons both on Guadalcanal on with Merill's Marauders (check out his book shots fired in anger)
It is a low profile curio and relic and not a CA evil black rifle.
Great rifle to teach or have young people and women use as the controls are friendly the weight it light the recoil low
many people I have found prefer it to even the SKS for its ergonomics and handiness and lower muzzle blast.
YMMV

 

[telebob]

I have an AO carbine. I use it for competition shooting with about 2k rounds through it. If you keep them clean they are just as reliable as any other semi-auto. I have a Burris scout scope mounted on an Ultimak rail and manage consistent two inch groups at 50 yards. It's not a tack driver but it's a decent tactical rifle, is quick and handles well.

She's always ready at home with a few mags of Win hollow points.

 

[ARGarrison]

My brother has kept a carbine for HD for years.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I think it would do well.

 

[akanotken]

If talking HD

What would be a good source of M1?

I'm thinking reliability would be paramount, and accuracy could take second seat, given expeced contact distances. How are the AO offereings?

I'm guessing that overpenetration could be and issue (compared with 9mm, 45, .223?)

Hope this isn't considered a hi jack?

 

[Dr.Rob]

Perfect for someone uncomforatble with recoil, lightweight, handy, more powerful than a pistol. Load it with soft points.

 

[Titan6]

Perfect for someone uncomforatble with recoil, lightweight, handy, more powerful than a pistol. Load it with soft points.

You beat me to it. Not in my top five for Combat but a fine HD weapon. Do not use ball ammo for anything but practice though. You have a round similar in power to a .357 magnum out of a similar size barrel. I don't think there are too many who would say call the .357 magnum a sissy gun.

 

[Dr_2_B]

Zeede,

Respectfully, I'm with Acheson. You could very easily miss with the first shot. Things just rarely go down the way you anticipate they will [of course, if you could anticipate it, you'd anticipate yerself into somewhere else, wouldn't cha?]. The military likes to say, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."

Also, research what Jim Cirillo says about the M1 carbine. If there's anyone who knows, it's him. And he has great things to say about the 30 cal. It was created to outperform the 45 caliber pistol - and it does. Make sure you use soft point or hollow point.

On a personal note, I bought my m1 carbine just today with home defense in mind. And I already have an AR15, AK47, and Mossy 12ga. Won't know until I've shot the thing, but as it stands, I believe my choice for 'bump in the night' gun would be:

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

There should be ballistic gel shots of .30 Carbine in the archives here. Try searching for member name "JE223" who has been a great contributor here and provided a lot of good information.

 

[Zeede]

I should clarify that the *primary* purpose of any centerfire rifle/carbine I buy will be range time. I'm not going to try and push my CZ 452 FS out to 300 yards, for that I want a centerfire rifle. The secondary (and hopefully never) purpose would be home defense, and for that purpose I greatly prefer a semi-auto. Hell even if the mag only held two bullets I'd prefer a semi-auto for that faster followup shot.

Given that the secondary purpose is home defense, a lot of larger centerfire rounds are out of the question. I love the Garand, would love to own one and may in the future, but it'd be ridiculously overpenetrating for home defense. .223 rifles are just too restricted here in California, having a fixed-mag AR-15 is retarded, I'd rather have a bolt-action CZ. Therefore I've been looking at other calibers.

Given that reliability is a big concern, that might be one reason to go w/ an AO reproduction.

Would the .30 round in soft/hollowpoint be more or less overpenetrating than a .223 round? How much more does .30 ammo cost? Remember, the primary reason I want a centerfire round is for fun at the range, and ammo cost is definitely a factor here.

Cameron

 

[Titan6]

SAME bullet types of .223 and .30 carbine the .223 Generally penetrates more.

The M1 carbine IME does not make a good 300 meter gun. The AR does. Given your new parameter an AR is a much better choice. If you are concerned about penetration you have choices with .223 that can reduce that problem.

 

[telebob]

Ah, California guy. I missed that first time 'round. You'd rather have an AR and you're looking at the M1 Carbine as a suitable alternative for range and HD. Is that right?

You're in luck in the AR department, . Building or buying a fixed mag AR in no longer the only option here in the PRK. Go over to Calguns.net and do a search for Off List Lowers. It's now possible due to recent changes in the law to build or buy a detachable mag AR lower as long as you forego the pistol grip and go with something like the Monster Man grip or U-15 stock. All the information you need is at Calguns.

You can buy the upper of your choice from anywhere and have it shipped directly to you without the need for an FFL.

Do that and you'll have a great range AND HD rifle. Just be sure to choose suitable HD ammo for your new AR and you're good to go.

Of course, your new AR would appreciate having an M1 Carbine for a range buddy...

 

[Zeede]

Actually I'd prefer to get something besides an AR, although I may have to go that route. As I understand it, if I did go that route, I'd have to have a gunsmith put the gun together for me, right?

Right now the Kel-Tec SU-16CA is the front runner, but I'm not sure about the reliability.

Cameron

 

[M2 Carbine]

If the M1 Carbine was good enough for the Marines on Iwo Jima, it's good enough to defend a home against a BG or several.

 

[Essex County]

I think very highly of the M1 Carbine. I was issued one in the '60s and really grew to like it. Today I have ARs and the only reason I don't have a Carbine is I refuse to pay the price for a really nice one. Essex

 

[Limeyfellow]

Its been used around the world as a police and defensive carbine around the world from South Korea to Israel for over 50 years of service where it worked just fine. Avoid the fmj stuff for anything but target practice and put through some jacketed hollowpoints or softpoint ammo and it will do the job very efficently.

Is it the best to use for the job nowadays. Probrobly not. It still be one of the cheaper options and M1 carbine ammunation is becoming more and more available. I know in my area of 5 gunshops that cover it plus Bass Pro and Gander Mountain.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Essex County
I think very highly of the M1 Carbine. I was issued one in the '60s and really grew to like it. Today I have ARs and the only reason I don't have a Carbine is I refuse to pay the price for a really nice one. Essex

I saw two very nice GI Carbines at the gun show last week. $550 and $525.
I'm still kicking myself for not buying them.