M1 Carbine Question

[Mr_Flintstone]

I have an Auto Ordnance M1 carbine that has been plagued since I bought it with a loose piston nut. I sent it back to the factory, but it still had the same problem. I tried blue permatex, and pipe tape that didn't work either. I finally decided to restake it myself. I bought a new GI nut and piston in case that was part of the problem, tightened it pretty tight, found a spot that hadn't been staked at the factory, and gave it a couple whacks. It held for a while, but the other day, it slipped loose. It can now be turned with my fingers, but the stake is holding it in place, and keeping it from getting any looser.

Now to my problem. I was shooting it yesterday, and after about 25 rounds, the rounds wouldn't seat all the way in the chamber. The chamber was fouled with burnt powder so bad that I had to stop shooting. Could the piston nut have somehow caused this, or was it maybe the ammo? It was Aguilla, and seemed a little dirty, but even Tula hasn't caused this in the past.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I've run some Aguilla thru my M1 and it seemed to be pretty weak stuff. I load mine pretty hot as it seems to help extraction. You can by brass chamber brushes also, I have one and clean the chamber every time I clean the barrel, which is about every 100 rounds. A USGI doesn't have a reputation for fouling the chamber, at least I've never seen it and I've had several. I've heard of the pistons being fouled but never experienced it. One thing you might try is a heavier op rod spring. That cleared up some issues I had with the bolt not putting the rounds all the way into battery.

I've never owned a Kahr so can't help you there.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I've run some Aguilla thru my M1 and it seemed to be pretty weak stuff. I load mine pretty hot as it seems to help extraction. You can by brass chamber brushes also, I have one and clean the chamber every time I clean the barrel, which is about every 100 rounds. A USGI doesn't have a reputation for fouling the chamber, at least I've never seen it and I've had several. I've heard of the pistons being fouled but never experienced it. One thing you might try is a heavier op rod spring. That cleared up some issues I had with the bolt not putting the rounds all the way into battery.

I've never owned a Kahr so can't help you there.

I used a worn 38 special brush on a short rod to clean the chamber. It worked pretty good. I've only got 5 Aguila rounds left. I just reloaded all my old brass with 110 grain bullets and 14 grains of IMR 4227. Maybe it will work a little better. I've got an extra strength recoil spring from Wolf that I ordered by accident one time if I need it.

 

[eastbank]

a loose gas piston-gas piston nut will not foul the chamber, but will let gas into the lower stock and batter the theads in the gas piston housing and cause malfunctions with ejection and feeding. you may want to try a type of loctite on the theads(not permanite). eastbank.

 

[Sunray]

Aguila runs at 1990 FPS. Same as Remington's UMC(might be Aguila anyway. Aguila used to be Remington.) and Federal. Weak, it ain't.
What did Kahr say when to sent the thing back? Sounds like an incorrectly sized piston nut to me.
The piston nut is not removed for normal cleaning. If it's not coming out it's fine. Kind of the purpose of the stake.
Been using 14.5 of IMR4227 with 110 grain bullets of all types for eons myself. (Wasn't the max when I started.) Gives a very satisfying BARK! when it goes off.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

a loose gas piston-gas piston nut will not foul the chamber, but will let gas into the lower stock and batter the theads in the gas piston housing and cause malfunctions with ejection and feeding. you may want to try a type of loctite on the theads(not permanite). eastbank.

I tried blue loctite, but it didn't work. It held in place for about 100 rounds, and melted into some kind of gooey mess. I was going to try the red, but I was afraid I might never get it back off.

Aguila runs at 1990 FPS. Same as Remington's UMC(might be Aguila anyway. Aguila used to be Remington.) and Federal. Weak, it ain't.
What did Kahr say when to sent the thing back? Sounds like an incorrectly sized piston nut to me.
The piston nut is not removed for normal cleaning. If it's not coming out it's fine. Kind of the purpose of the stake.
Been using 14.5 of IMR4227 with 110 grain bullets of all types for eons myself. (Wasn't the max when I started.) Gives a very satisfying BARK! when it goes off.

Kahr didn't give any kind of reply or comment. They just sent it back re-staked (which didn't really help). Their piston nuts don't have a recess for the stake material from the gas port to move into and block turning of the nut. I bought a GI piston and nut and replaced the factory ones, but they wouldn't stay tight either without staking. What I find strange is that after tightening and staking, the nut slipped one groove and is now stable; a little "wiggly", but it is staying in place for now, and not getting any worse.

As for the 4227 powder, with all the confusion about old IMR 4227/New IMR 4227/H4227, I was afraid to go full strength the first time out with this powder. Although I didn't chrono the rounds, the 14 grain loads seemed comparable to the Aguila rounds, and didn't come out as dirty. Maybe I just got a bad box of the Aguila.

 

[Merle1]

I tried blue loctite, but it didn't work. It held in place for about 100 rounds, and melted into some kind of gooey mess. I was going to try the red, but I was afraid I might never get it back off.



Kahr didn't give any kind of reply or comment. They just sent it back re-staked (which didn't really help). Their piston nuts don't have a recess for the stake material from the gas port to move into and block turning of the nut. I bought a GI piston and nut and replaced the factory ones, but they wouldn't stay tight either without staking. What I find strange is that after tightening and staking, the nut slipped one groove and is now stable; a little "wiggly", but it is staying in place for now, and not getting any worse.

As for the 4227 powder, with all the confusion about old IMR 4227/New IMR 4227/H4227, I was afraid to go full strength the first time out with this powder. Although I didn't chrono the rounds, the 14 grain loads seemed comparable to the Aguila rounds, and didn't come out as dirty. Maybe I just got a bad box of the Aguila.

It's good to back ff even when starting a new lot of the exact same powder - even more important in this case.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Aguila runs at 1990 FPS. Same as Remington's UMC(might be Aguila anyway. Aguila used to be Remington.) and Federal. Weak, it ain't.
What did Kahr say when to sent the thing back? Sounds like an incorrectly sized piston nut to me.
The piston nut is not removed for normal cleaning. If it's not coming out it's fine. Kind of the purpose of the stake.
Been using 14.5 of IMR4227 with 110 grain bullets of all types for eons myself. (Wasn't the max when I started.) Gives a very satisfying BARK! when it goes off.

That 1990 MV is what Aquila publishes. I don't think their quality control is as good as Hornady or Federal. I may have had a bad box, don't know. Around 1900 fps was my experience which isn't a deal breaker. I find the brass at the range and it reloads just fine and is accurate.

 

[boom boom]

You can get off the red at 550F. Just have to apply localized heat. Or have a gunsmith do it.
From the horse's mouth: http://henkeladhesivesna.com/blog/how-to-remove-loctite-2620-red-threadlocker/

 

[loose noose]

My Iver Johnson M-1 Carbine was manufactured right around 1979, I bought it about 2-3 years ago and never had a problem with it, although after shooting the first 2-300 rounds thru it, I noticed it wasn't ejecting the rounds quite as far away from the firearm as I had become accustomed. Needless to say I broke it down and found the gas piston to be extremely cruddy and the piston would barely move in and out. After using a gas piston removal tool that I got from Numerich Gun Parts, I finally got the staking pin out, and removed the piston nut. After thoroughly cleaning the bushing and the piston out, using Q-tips and alcohol, I replaced the piston and it was quite easy re-staking the nut after re-aligning the nut. Since that time I've shot at least 2-3000 rounds thru it without a hitch, never had a failure to feed, fire, or eject.. Never even tried using Loctite, as that little pin has a pretty firm fit. Hopefully this will help if your gas piston is similar to the one in my rifle.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

My Iver Johnson M-1 Carbine was manufactured right around 1979, I bought it about 2-3 years ago and never had a problem with it, although after shooting the first 2-300 rounds thru it, I noticed it wasn't ejecting the rounds quite as far away from the firearm as I had become accustomed. Needless to say I broke it down and found the gas piston to be extremely cruddy and the piston would barely move in and out. After using a gas piston removal tool that I got from Numerich Gun Parts, I finally got the staking pin out, and removed the piston nut. After thoroughly cleaning the bushing and the piston out, using Q-tips and alcohol, I replaced the piston and it was quite easy re-staking the nut after re-aligning the nut. Since that time I've shot at least 2-3000 rounds thru it without a hitch, never had a failure to feed, fire, or eject.. Never even tried using Loctite, as that little pin has a pretty firm fit. Hopefully this will help if your gas piston is similar to the one in my rifle.

Mine's not like that; although some type of pin would come in handy. Mine has to be staked by using a punch to move metal from the gas port housing to block movement of the nut.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Locktite "green".
Will have to be heated with a torch to loosen/remove.
I keep a tube of blue (scope ring mount screws), "green" (red tube) for what absolutely needs to stay put. (Called sleeve locker, or "permanent" locktite).

 

[hdwhit]

Mr Flintsone wrote:
Mine's not like that; although some type of pin would come in handy. Mine has to be staked by using a punch to move metal from the gas port housing to block movement of the nut.

Here are two suggestions:

1. Pay a gunsmith to drill and thread the bottom of the gas cylinder where the nut screws in and install a screw to provide an interference for the nut. If you spend some time on http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/ you'll see some commercial manfacturers who resorted to this.
2. Instead of using Loctite or Teflon Tape, try using some pure lead pounded into a flat strip as if it were teflon tape and then use that to provide the necessary interfernece to keep the gas piston in it's place.

 

[Ironicaintit]

That 1990 MV is what Aquila publishes. I don't think their quality control is as good as Hornady or Federal. I may have had a bad box, don't know. Around 1900 fps was my experience which isn't a deal breaker. I find the brass at the range and it reloads just fine and is accurate.

I ran a bunch of Aquila over a chrony and got anywhere from the mid 1800 fps up to nearly 2000 fps. pretty inconsistent stuff. but the brass itself is great and makes some fine ammo when assembled well.

Mr Flinstone, I hope you get your problem resolved. I'm of no help. My Winchester has been reliable as a hammer.

If peening and/or Loctite cant keep it secure...there may some kindof of underlying issue (but what, I don't know)

 

[loose noose]

Mr. Flintstone, sorry to hear about your dilemma, I for one thought that the gas piston in all the M-1 .30 Caliber Carbines, had the same gas piston, myself I would do what was already recommended and have a gunsmith drill a hole and insert a pin/screw thru it. I reckon that is what they do when they try to remanufacture an old relic, I guess I got lucky with mine, as all the original parts of the old relic work just fine, mil spec so to speak.