Tell me about current M1 Carbine manufacturers please. Besides my other posting about AR vs Mini, I also have a great affinity for the M1 Carbine. Obviously, the round isn’t nearly as ubiquitous as the 5.56/.223, but it is just such a handy little rifle. I don’t have an interest in an original as I’ll leave those for the collector market, but there are a few companies making them again, with prices varying quite a bit, at least on GB. Do the current prices reflect the quality of each of the makers and how do they compare in general quality wise?
M1 Carbine questions.
- Thread starter Quincy12
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Sistema1927
Member
Don't know if all of them are still in production, but Plainview, Inland, and Auto Ordnance (Kahr) come to mind.
However, don't worry about "collectable" when it comes to surplus since all of them were rebuilt a time or two and most of them, like my Quality Hardware M1 carbine, are a mix master of various parts. Mine is a hoot to shoot, and will take any and all abuse that I might give it.
However, don't worry about "collectable" when it comes to surplus since all of them were rebuilt a time or two and most of them, like my Quality Hardware M1 carbine, are a mix master of various parts. Mine is a hoot to shoot, and will take any and all abuse that I might give it.
HankB
Member
James River Armory is producing M1 Carbines marked "Rockola" which they claim are made to exact USGI ordnance drawings, and use a new receiver machined from 8620 billet steel, not cast. http://www.jamesriverarmory.com/
The ad copy makes these sound like the best of the current breed, but of course every manufacturer's ad copy is designed to do that. I haven't seen these personally myself, nor have I seen much in the way of reviews, so "Caveat Emptor."
The ad copy makes these sound like the best of the current breed, but of course every manufacturer's ad copy is designed to do that. I haven't seen these personally myself, nor have I seen much in the way of reviews, so "Caveat Emptor."
Read in a recent magazine that the new Inland Mfg. company uses cast receivers from Kahr. James River Arsenal along with Fulton Armory machine their receivers from billet, albeit different alloys. May make a difference to you or not.
lemaymiami
Member
Quincy... here's where to go to learn a bit about your options...
http://m1carbineforum.forumco.com/ or http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/
Both sites have a "commercial carbines" board with quite a bit of info. The guy who created and maintains the second site is the author of the info about "New Inland" and it's must reading for any current purchaser of commercial carbines....
The currently being built commercial carbines come in two categories - the low end (Auto Ordnance, and "New Inland") - both quite similar and have had quite a few problems reported... The high end commercial carbines are pricey but actually work quite well (Fulton Armory, James River Armory). These both use properly machined receivers and many G.I. parts but with brand new Criterion barrels. Unfortunately both are almost twice as much as the AO or New Inland....
To give you some idea of the very real problems found with these items read through this thread by one of the most knowledgable guys in the carbine world after he bought and tested a New Inland this past summer. Crack a cold one - this runs 8 pages....
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=53708
Sorry -it's up to nine pages now... but really worth reading.....
Someone has already mentioned Plainfield (long out of business) which might have been the pick of the older commercial carbines from all accounts (and completely compatible with GI surplus carbine parts....) about reliability and good shooting... Look up Plainfield carbine on Gunbroker to find a few being offered currently. I just bought a nearly new one and will take delivery next week -so I'm going to find out first hand (for about half what a beat up WWII carbine goes for).
Most that like carbines spend the money and pick up old War Babies (real USGI carbines), built around 70 years ago, then spend the money and time to bring them up to good standards... They will always have a weapon that will go up in value each year -commercial carbines won't enjoy that advantage... I chose the commercial route since I'm only looking for a good shooter and have no interest at all in collecting....
Hope this helps.
http://m1carbineforum.forumco.com/ or http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/
Both sites have a "commercial carbines" board with quite a bit of info. The guy who created and maintains the second site is the author of the info about "New Inland" and it's must reading for any current purchaser of commercial carbines....
The currently being built commercial carbines come in two categories - the low end (Auto Ordnance, and "New Inland") - both quite similar and have had quite a few problems reported... The high end commercial carbines are pricey but actually work quite well (Fulton Armory, James River Armory). These both use properly machined receivers and many G.I. parts but with brand new Criterion barrels. Unfortunately both are almost twice as much as the AO or New Inland....
To give you some idea of the very real problems found with these items read through this thread by one of the most knowledgable guys in the carbine world after he bought and tested a New Inland this past summer. Crack a cold one - this runs 8 pages....
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=53708
Sorry -it's up to nine pages now... but really worth reading.....
Someone has already mentioned Plainfield (long out of business) which might have been the pick of the older commercial carbines from all accounts (and completely compatible with GI surplus carbine parts....) about reliability and good shooting... Look up Plainfield carbine on Gunbroker to find a few being offered currently. I just bought a nearly new one and will take delivery next week -so I'm going to find out first hand (for about half what a beat up WWII carbine goes for).
Most that like carbines spend the money and pick up old War Babies (real USGI carbines), built around 70 years ago, then spend the money and time to bring them up to good standards... They will always have a weapon that will go up in value each year -commercial carbines won't enjoy that advantage... I chose the commercial route since I'm only looking for a good shooter and have no interest at all in collecting....
Hope this helps.
I have an M1 Carbine from Auto Ordnance. My daughter and I have placed more than a few hundred rounds through it without any problems. With stock iron sights I can persistently hit an 8" gong from a 100 yards and about 6/10 at 200 yards. It's really fun to shoot. I use the cheap Tula ammo which costs $18 per box of 50.
It is more expensive that you AR, AK or even Mini 14. It is not as acurate as the others . Owners of these rifles own it for fun rather than for practicality.
It is also a handy and more sufficient home defense weapon.
It is more expensive that you AR, AK or even Mini 14. It is not as acurate as the others . Owners of these rifles own it for fun rather than for practicality.
It is also a handy and more sufficient home defense weapon.
Sunray
Member
Chiappa's aren't real Carbines. Sort of copies that have been re-designed.
'Plainview' is Plainfield and they're long gone. Best of the commercial Carbines though. Mine will shoot circles around any AK and is absolutely far more accurate than any variant of Mini-14.
Do not buy a Universal. They're fragile junk.
"...Do the current prices reflect..." No. Just the high demand for .30 M1 Carbines. I have no idea which current manufacturer makes the best. Really don't think any of 'em are worth the asking price though.
"...It is not as accurate as the others..." Use better ammo. Or reload.
'Plainview' is Plainfield and they're long gone. Best of the commercial Carbines though. Mine will shoot circles around any AK and is absolutely far more accurate than any variant of Mini-14.
Do not buy a Universal. They're fragile junk.
"...Do the current prices reflect..." No. Just the high demand for .30 M1 Carbines. I have no idea which current manufacturer makes the best. Really don't think any of 'em are worth the asking price though.
"...It is not as accurate as the others..." Use better ammo. Or reload.
I sent my new Inland Mfg carbine back to the manufacturer twice because of failures to cycle with a full or mostly full magazine. I told them I thought maybe the magazine was holding the rounds too tight and not allowing them to feed all the way into battery. First they replaced the bolt saying it wasn't hardened properly. The second time they replaced the entire barrel/receiver assembly but with no improvement. If I only load 9 or 10 rounds into their 15 round mag it runs pretty well. Any more than 10 rounds in the mag and it won't feed all the way. Maybe I need to get a South Korean 15 rounder and try it out. I think the Inland Mfg mags must be the issue. The mag in the photo is a ten round that came with it. They sent a 15 round during it's last visit to the factory.
On the bright side I really like the looks and feel of the carbine and it is fun to shoot when it's running good.
On the bright side I really like the looks and feel of the carbine and it is fun to shoot when it's running good.
lemaymiami
Member
When you read about the problems that have been found with New Inland you'll be glad if yours is just picky about magazines....
For BP, the consensus on every site I've checked is to avoid steel cased ammo for carbines period.... Hope you don't regret using the cheap Tula....
For BP, the consensus on every site I've checked is to avoid steel cased ammo for carbines period.... Hope you don't regret using the cheap Tula....
loose noose
Member
Well here is a curve ball for ya, I've got an Iver Johnson that was made about the later 70's. I just recently put a brand new stock (walnut) from Numerich Gun Parts. I do reload for it, and have shot at least 200 factory rounds thru it without a problem not to mention 500-750 reloaded rounds thru it and still no problem. That's why I purchased the new stock. Quite frankly I love that little carbine. I paid $397.00 out the door, and after I purchased additional magazines, put a bayonet stud, a bayonet, a sling and oiler, two magazine pouches, one for my belt the other attached to the stock. I don't even want to think about the money I have invested in it, but I'll tell ya this it is loads of fun to shoot, and everybody at the range just loves it too. Note; I take the bayonet off at the range.
CoalTrain49
Member
http://fernwoodarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_68&products_id=494
I was going to buy one from these guys but decided to rebuild my own, which I did.
I would say for a few hundred more than sight unseen you would get a serviceable carbine from Fernwood.
Or buy one from CMP.
http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/
You get what you pay for. Rebuilt USGI is going to run right. Use USGI mags no matter what you buy.
I was going to buy one from these guys but decided to rebuild my own, which I did.
I would say for a few hundred more than sight unseen you would get a serviceable carbine from Fernwood.
Or buy one from CMP.
http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/
You get what you pay for. Rebuilt USGI is going to run right. Use USGI mags no matter what you buy.
HOWARD J
Member
I also have a Iver Johnson M! Carbine
Picked it up way back when---I think about $150
It has many rounds thru it- replaced the bolt twice.
It is a ball to shoot---I have about 700 reloads ready for when I get to the range
Have fun,
H
Picked it up way back when---I think about $150
It has many rounds thru it- replaced the bolt twice.
It is a ball to shoot---I have about 700 reloads ready for when I get to the range
Have fun,
H
criterionbarrels
Member
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- Aug 4, 2014
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- 6
There are plenty of options available with varying levels of performance. The M1 Carbine that currently holds the National Match record was a Fulton Armory build with a Criterion barrel.
http://criterionbarrels.com/victor-betzold-sets-m1-carbine-national-record-with-criterion-barrel
http://criterionbarrels.com/victor-betzold-sets-m1-carbine-national-record-with-criterion-barrel
lemaymiami
Member
That's an outstanding performance. I've bid on one or two Fultons that came to the market but the bids quickly exceeded my limit... sigh...
GarandBragger
Member
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- Mar 17, 2014
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- 25
If you haven't made your choice yet, I can't stress enough to get a nice USGI carbine. The new ones may look pretty, but from personal experience and that of friends, getting one that shoots out of the box is a luck of the draw.
Off the top of my head, USGI manufacturers are:
Inland
Rockola
Saginaw
Winchester
Postal Meter
Underwood
Quality Hardware
Standard Products
IBM
Just check the muzzle and throat wear, condition of parts, and you should be good to go. Plus USGI will hold value better for the future compared to commercial (new inland, new roc kola, Plainfield, universal). Plus parts for them are still pretty available.
Off the top of my head, USGI manufacturers are:
Inland
Rockola
Saginaw
Winchester
Postal Meter
Underwood
Quality Hardware
Standard Products
IBM
Just check the muzzle and throat wear, condition of parts, and you should be good to go. Plus USGI will hold value better for the future compared to commercial (new inland, new roc kola, Plainfield, universal). Plus parts for them are still pretty available.
lemaymiami
Member
thanks Garand (but I've been haunting every carbine site I could find for the last few months.... and in every case any kind of veteran carbine in decent shape is a bit out of my range...). Finally after much research I've bought a Plainfield in almost new condtion -should take possession in a few days... Unlike many commercial copies the Plainfield is fully able to accept GI parts.... From all accounts -it's the best of the older commercial carbines. I'm the exact opposite of a collector since I want a carbine for the exact purpose it was originally designed for not as a hobby.... (and with soft point ammo pretty effective for encounters at pistol ranges and well beyond....but I'll have to verify this weapon feeds soft point properly...). I know that every GI carbine will continue to go up in value (particularly when many collectors seem willing to pay and willing to tie up all the best gear....). That Plainfield cost me just about half of what a barely serviceable GI carbine goes for these days - and that counts for something in my world.
The only new commercial carbine I'd consider currently, Fulton Armory service grade, goes for three times what the Plainfield cost... but I'd gladly pay that if I were able.. Like I said - I'm the opposite of a collector -any weapon is only worth having if it fills a specific need in my view -but I spent 22 years on the street learning that. Read the info that Criterion posted - a Fulton carbine has taken top honors -and set a new record in national carbine competition just recently... an outstanding performance any way you look at it. Me, I'll be satisfied if my Plainfield is a reliable shooter doing what it was designed for....
By the way I'm the guy that posted the link regarding New Inland - and just how bad some of those nice, new, good looking items actually are when closely inspected. From early info on them you'd think they were first rate - I was lucky to learn otherwise....
The only new commercial carbine I'd consider currently, Fulton Armory service grade, goes for three times what the Plainfield cost... but I'd gladly pay that if I were able.. Like I said - I'm the opposite of a collector -any weapon is only worth having if it fills a specific need in my view -but I spent 22 years on the street learning that. Read the info that Criterion posted - a Fulton carbine has taken top honors -and set a new record in national carbine competition just recently... an outstanding performance any way you look at it. Me, I'll be satisfied if my Plainfield is a reliable shooter doing what it was designed for....
By the way I'm the guy that posted the link regarding New Inland - and just how bad some of those nice, new, good looking items actually are when closely inspected. From early info on them you'd think they were first rate - I was lucky to learn otherwise....
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loose noose
Member
leymaymiami, I hear ya, had an old military M-1 carbine about 30 years ago, which was unreliable and inaccurate as all get up. I'm not sure but I believe it was an Inland made about 1943-44. I got rid of it for about what I paid for it, and felt good riddance to bad rubbish. Then about a year or so ago I got interested in the M-1 Carbine again and found out how expensive the originals were. I happened into a gun store in Prescott, AZ and asked if they had any M-1 Carbines for sale, and lo and behold they had this Iver Johnson, when asked how much, I couldn't believe the price. The gun was pretty clean, and he thru in two used magazines (neither were worth a darn). The rest is history. The Plainfield is basically the same as the Iver Johnson, there are good, as well as worthless, in that they sometime work as designed, and others are jammo-matics. Incidentally at one time the Plainfield, and Iver Johnson were made at the same factory. Hopefully you got one that is worthy of owning.
lemaymiami
Member
From what I've read on the best reference I could find -
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_plainfield.html
Iver Johnson bought up what was left of Plainfield in 1978 and intially the two were quite similar but quality deteriorated as the Plainfield parts ran out.....
The site I've listed is absolutely the best place I know of for researching any make of carbine (old or new....). The fellow that runs it is the same guy that's doing the on-going review and research into "New Inland". Once you're there on the commercial side you can also find lots of info on the many companies that actually produced those old war babies that are so collectible now...
One thing is certain, since I've bought a Plainfield (less that $500...) in almost new condition I'll be finding out myself whether it's worth having....and shooting, etc.
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_plainfield.html
Iver Johnson bought up what was left of Plainfield in 1978 and intially the two were quite similar but quality deteriorated as the Plainfield parts ran out.....
The site I've listed is absolutely the best place I know of for researching any make of carbine (old or new....). The fellow that runs it is the same guy that's doing the on-going review and research into "New Inland". Once you're there on the commercial side you can also find lots of info on the many companies that actually produced those old war babies that are so collectible now...
One thing is certain, since I've bought a Plainfield (less that $500...) in almost new condition I'll be finding out myself whether it's worth having....and shooting, etc.
loose noose
Member
Be sure and let us know, inquiring minds are waiting anxiously.
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