M1 Carbine questions

[7.65browning]

Hi,

I just acquired a 6-digit serial number Inland with a 4-43 barrel date. I have two questions I'd like some advice on:

1: On the front of the right locking lug, where it engages the camming surface in the slide there is a noticeable bump right where the worn off finish area starts. It's not very big, but it definitely can be felt if I run my fingernail through that part. I'm thinking it is some very slight peening caused by the slide hitting it after every shot, but I wanted to ask members more experienced with the M1 Carbine if this is OK? I've attached a picture of the area in question.

2: I noticed that the recoil plate is loose in the stock, however if I tighten the screw down, I can't lower the action into the stock as the barrel will be angled upwards and I'd need to force it down to get the barrel band in its place. Any tips on how I could fix this?

Many thanks,
Tom

 

[Tommygunn]

The second is normal for proper bedding.

As to the "bump" I can't say .... it looks like normal wear to me. I can't see anything I'd worry about.

Anything like a Crack would be a problem on those lugs.

 

[7.65browning]

The second is normal for proper bedding.

As to the "bump" I can't say .... it looks like normal wear to me. I can't see anything I'd worry about.

Anything like a Crack would be a problem on those lugs.

Thanks! Regarding number 2, I was reading the technical manual that said the action should “hang” about 1/8” to 1/4” above the barrel channel for a proper fit. In my case we are talking more like 1.5 to 2 inches if the recoil plate is tightened down. Or is it a case of loosening the recoil plate until the proper amount of “hang” is achieved, pulling the action into the stock and securing the handguard?

Tom

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Thanks! Regarding number 2, I was reading the technical manual that said the action should “hang” about 1/8” to 1/4” above the barrel channel for a proper fit. In my case we are talking more like 1.5 to 2 inches if the recoil plate is tightened down. Or is it a case of loosening the recoil plate until the proper amount of “hang” is achieved, pulling the action into the stock and securing the handguard?

Tom

The bolt lug is normal, nothing to worry about there.

As far as the recoil plate, sounds like you're stock is missing material above the escutcheon- this is a common damage area on carbine stocks, not least due to over tightening of the plate screw, but Ive seen entire chunks of wood fall out of that joint. The plate should not go in so far as to hold the barrel 2" above the channel!

If the rest of the stock is good, you may be able to build up the area under the plate with wood putty or epoxy until the correct alignment is achieved. If the stock is sketchy anyway, I would go ahead and get a new one from Fulton Armory.

Once the plate to stock alignment is good, insert the action into the plate and it should hang just above the wood. Do not over torque the plate screw! Use blue Locktite on the threads, snug it up and give it an extra half-turn, that's it.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"Thanks! Regarding number 2, I was reading the technical manual that said the action should “hang” about 1/8” to 1/4” above the barrel channel for a proper fit. In my case we are talking more like 1.5 to 2 inches if the recoil plate is tightened down."

Agreeing with #4. If the wood of the stock beneath the recoil plate has been crushed (or simply shrunk over the year), I suspect one might use stock bedding compound under the recoil plate to build the stock area up to get the proper amount of hang.

 

[loose noose]

Hmmm, very interesting the part about the recoil lug, I recently installed a new stock on my M-1 Carbine, and just snugged up the recoil lug, the barrel band slipped right in but a little snug, which I kind of thought was OK with a new stock. I haven't noticed the recoil lug sitting up above the stock in any place. BTW it is still very accurate, so I don't believe I did anything wrong in installing the new walnut stock, please let me know if I did before I experience any damage to the stock. I don't understand the 1/8"-1/4" space being referred to.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Hmmm, very interesting the part about the recoil lug, I recently installed a new stock on my M-1 Carbine, and just snugged up the recoil lug, the barrel band slipped right in but a little snug, which I kind of thought was OK with a new stock. I haven't noticed the recoil lug sitting up above the stock in any place. BTW it is still very accurate, so I don't believe I did anything wrong in installing the new walnut stock, please let me know if I did before I experience any damage to the stock. I don't understand the 1/8"-1/4" space being referred to.

The top of the recoil plate should be more or less flush with the top of the stock wrist when the screw is set. I hate to say "tightened" because over-tightening is the number one cause of stock damage.

When the action lug is set into the plate, but before the upper handguard or band are set into place, the barrel should hover just above its channel in the stock, not touching the wood.

Then the upper guard is put in place and the band slipped on. You should have to squeeze the upper and lower wood together to get the band on.

 

[7.65browning]

"Thanks! Regarding number 2, I was reading the technical manual that said the action should “hang” about 1/8” to 1/4” above the barrel channel for a proper fit. In my case we are talking more like 1.5 to 2 inches if the recoil plate is tightened down."

Agreeing with #4. If the wood of the stock beneath the recoil plate has been crushed (or simply shrunk over the year), I suspect one might use stock bedding compound under the recoil plate to build the stock area up to get the proper amount of hang.

Thank you! It might be a while before I can get another stock or material to fix the current one, is it OK to shoot the rifle as it is or do I risk damaging anything? Also, the previous owner seems not to have known about the gas cylinder not needing oil so its running out besides the piston. Is it safe to shoot it with oil in there?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Thank you! It might be a while before I can get another stock or material to fix the current one, is it OK to shoot the rifle as it is or do I risk damaging anything? Also, the previous owner seems not to have known about the gas cylinder not needing oil so its running out besides the piston. Is it safe to shoot it with oil in there?

Thanks,
Tom

I wouldn't try to shoot it. With the condition you are describing, there is too much risk of causing more damage to the stock or even cracking the upper handguard, as I'm thinking it has too much pressure on the band. In an extreme case, if the plate rips out completely, the action could jump up out of the stock- I've had a M1903 do this to me, wasn't full at all!

As far as the oil on the piston, I wouldn't worry about it. AR bolts run positively wet in oil, they might smoke a bit, but almost never catch fire.....almost, lol.

 

[7.65browning]

I wouldn't try to shoot it. With the condition you are describing, there is too much risk of causing more damage to the stock or even cracking the upper handguard, as I'm thinking it has too much pressure on the band. In an extreme case, if the plate rips out completely, the action could jump up out of the stock- I've had a M1903 do this to me, wasn't full at all!

As far as the oil on the piston, I wouldn't worry about it. AR bolts run positive my wet in oil, they might smoke a bit, but almost never catch fire.....almost, lol.

It's not as bad as it sounds actually. If I loosen the recoil plate screw a little I can get the action to get just the right amount of hang. Sliding on the barrel band and tightening it creates a really solid action, no movement of the metal inside the stock at all. The stock is a pretty rough mismatch anyway so I'm not worried about it too much, however I'd like to avoid any damage to the receiver. If firing the rifle in this condition won't risk that, I'm fine.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

It's not as bad as it sounds actually. If I loosen the recoil plate screw a little I can get the action to get just the right amount of hang. Sliding on the barrel band and tightening it creates a really solid action, no movement of the metal inside the stock at all. The stock is a pretty rough mismatch anyway so I'm not worried about it too much, however I'd like to avoid any damage to the receiver. If firing the rifle in this condition won't risk that, I'm fine.

Naaaaa, won't hurt the receiver.
Sounds like your close to a permanent fix, though. Put a drop of blue loctite on the recoil plate screw threads, and set the barrel hang as you describe it. Then remove the action, but leave the plate at that spot. Get a $4 tube of wood putty at the hardware store and press in into any gap in the inlet beneath the plate. Allow the putty to dry, then reinstall the barrel and recheck the hang. Voila'!

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"Also, the previous owner seems not to have known about the gas cylinder not needing oil so its running out besides the piston. Is it safe to shoot it with oil in there?"

The M1 carbine piston is supposed to run dry. US military and commercial ammo is non-corrosive primed. I learned follow the tech manual and clean the barrel "upside down" so cleaning fluid and powder fouling do not run down the gas port into the cylinder. The piston is designed to be self-cleaning by gas pressure drawn off just inches from the breech end of barrel. If my piston were"wet" at the start of a shooting session, it would be dry in few rounds. Powder residue + oil does make mess.

 

[Tommygunn]

^^^
That. The best thing to do with the tappet (not really a piston) is nothing. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

[7.65browning]

Naaaaa, won't hurt the receiver.
Sounds like your close to a permanent fix, though. Put a drop of blue loctite on the recoil plate screw threads, and set the barrel hang as you describe it. Then remove the action, but leave the plate at that spot. Get a $4 tube of wood putty at the hardware store and press in into any gap in the inlet beneath the plate. Allow the putty to dry, then reinstall the barrel and recheck the hang. Voila'!

So after a bit of wiggling it and trying to find the best position I tightened down the recoil plate screw and the action had the perfect amount of hang, so this problem is solved . Maybe something wasn't positioned right when I first looked at it.

On another note, I was looking at the rails on the barrel for the slide lugs and noticed there is some wear on the edges of the rails at the disassembly notch. I've attached a picture, is this wear normal at that spot? Bear with me, I'm still learning about these details of the Carbine...

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Wouldn't worry about it. Carbine slides don't usually jump their tracks like Garand op-rods do sometimes.

 

[kBob]

Um , my experience is that the Carbine jumps the track MORE than the Rifle. Maybe I just had more aquantances that were ham handed with carbines. I am convinced that most track jumpers occur because some one applied upward pressure while cycling the oprod by hand and just pulled it out of the disassembly knotch. I suspect that most rifle jumps are when some one is in the prone and so the mechanics of their arm sort of force the upper pressure as the op rod passes the disassembly knotch. With the carbine it is most likely while loading from the waist while standing.

Anyhow the rifle or carbine functions a time or two with the oprod free of its rail until the bolt longs for its freedom.

Had a number of carbines brought to me in my high school days by police reservists each terrified that they had "ruined" the carbine.

Usually a pretty quick fix, even in the field as sort of an almost immediate action. However a bit of BFI (Brute Fore and Ignorance) on the part of the uniformed shooter can tighten things right up.

I once knew an NCO that had two shingles on his rifle qualification badge below his rifle shingle he had custom made. There was the "M16A1" shingle immediately below his bolo badge ( in his case an Expert badge) and below that was "BFR" and below that "BFI." That would be Big "Fine" Rock and Brute Force and Ignorance. He was before coming to our unit a Drill Baby at Ft. Knox and had an odd sense of humor. Said a jeweler in Louisville made them. I at first thought he had a BAR shingle as it was possible at that time until I got a closer look. He did teach us to save near fist sized rocks when we dug in saying one of his NCOs when he was a private had served in Korea and taught him the value of the BFR as both a projectile weapon and fist force multiplier. Maybe that Korea vet was armed with a carbine and felt the need for back up weapons?

See? Brought it back to Carbines.

-kBob

-kBob

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Um , my experience is that the Carbine jumps the track MORE than the Rifle. Maybe I just had more aquantances that were ham handed with carbines. I am convinced that most track jumpers occur because some one applied upward pressure while cycling the oprod by hand and just pulled it out of the disassembly knotch. I suspect that most rifle jumps are when some one is in the prone and so the mechanics of their arm sort of force the upper pressure as the op rod passes the disassembly knotch. With the carbine it is most likely while loading from the waist while standing.

Anyhow the rifle or carbine functions a time or two with the oprod free of its rail until the bolt longs for its freedom.

Had a number of carbines brought to me in my high school days by police reservists each terrified that they had "ruined" the carbine.

Usually a pretty quick fix, even in the field as sort of an almost immediate action. However a bit of BFI (Brute Fore and Ignorance) on the part of the uniformed shooter can tighten things right up.

I once knew an NCO that had two shingles on his rifle qualification badge below his rifle shingle he had custom made. There was the "M16A1" shingle immediately below his bolo badge ( in his case an Expert badge) and below that was "BFR" and below that "BFI." That would be Big "Fine" Rock and Brute Force and Ignorance. He was before coming to our unit a Drill Baby at Ft. Knox and had an odd sense of humor. Said a jeweler in Louisville made them. I at first thought he had a BAR shingle as it was possible at that time until I got a closer look. He did teach us to save near fist sized rocks when we dug in saying one of his NCOs when he was a private had served in Korea and taught him the value of the BFR as both a projectile weapon and fist force multiplier. Maybe that Korea vet was armed with a carbine and felt the need for back up weapons?

See? Brought it back to Carbines.

-kBob

-kBob

Haha! Good stuff!