m1 carbine restoration...kind of

[kir_kenix]

well i have always loved the m1 carbine (almost as much as 1911's...) and i recently have gotten into collecting them. the m1 carbine was the first "high-powered rifle" i ever owned, and i just plain love the thing. i have found that the one i have had for years was a replica (Plainfield) and it is just beat to hell. it was pretty beat when my father gave it to me upon moving to michigan when i was 10ish and boy did i add to that. the stock is all sorts of marled up from me carrying it on my back in west and north michigan woods when i was younger. a few years later i moved back to nebraska and in with my father and i left the gun behind for my little brother (besides, we had plenty of carbines back here for me to shoot). my mother recently returned the rifle to me, after my step-father had left it underneath the seat of his work truck for 4 & 1/2 years!!!! I cant believe this is the same "beauty" i had as a kid. it is really beat to hell. still shoots alright, but the bullets were all over the place because the muzzle was filthy and starting to pit. so last night i decided that was enough, i was going to restore this rifle back to usabilty. i started by doing a very, very, very thurough cleaning/disasembaly. i ended up plugging the barrel and filling it full of brake parts cleaner (not sure if this is actually a good practice, but it worked pretty well this time) and scrubbing, scrubbing, scrubbing (nylon and bore-snake mainly). now the barrel is mirror shiny and the rifling is entirely visable and sharp (never remember it being that nice looking back in the day). cleaned up the bolt (it was a MESS). replaced all the springs by stealing them out of another m1 carbine that i have a spring kit ordered for. so i think i have her in decent mechanical shape, but now i have gotten to trying to fix her beat up furniture. i have been carefully sanding w/ a rubber eraser and 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper for HOURS now. about 2/3rds of the way done but my hand is so tired i had to take a break and start this silly thread. anyway, i really would go w/ 220 w/d sandpaper if i were to do this again, but im not gonna drive 50 some miles round trip for 2 sheets of sandpaper...and i dont want to stop working.

well here is where i am at now. i figure i have probably 1 1/2 hours left to get her where i want her, finishing w/ 400 grit w/d. took many of the dents out w/ a hot iron and damp cloth, cannot believe that this trick actually works. anyway, now for my question to yall...can i put birchwood caser tru oil gun stock finish over stain? i have used this before when i really liked the grain on my shotguns, but it wont "bring out" anything in the wood and i would prefer it to darken up some. also, what sort of stain to you reccomend for this sort of project? assuming i can use stain at all that is.

i know i am not doing a world class job, but i think it looks pretty decent. ive tried to preserve all the lines, but to be honest i have rounded out some of them, and i have a few low spots from where i had to fix some dings/scratches. im more interested in this being a shooter then it being collectable. i may end up lapping the crown too...it has a little dent in it. doubt it affects the accuracy much, but once i get her back together i will decide for sure. i need to clean up the trigger assembly some as well...but i am almost there. god i cant wait to finish this project, and now that my had has stopped throbbing i think ill go back to it.

thanks in advance for any advice/tips that any of you are sure to share to a humble beginner.

 

[VA27]

The Plainfield is not a replica. It's the real deal. I read somewhere that Plainfield secretly built Carbines for the gov't during the Vietnam War. Take good care of the ol' girl and she'll serve you well.

I've used tru-oil over Birchwoods water based stain with no problems.

If worse comes to worse, a GI stock will work on it.

 

[AZ Jeff]

I read somewhere that Plainfield secretly built Carbines for the gov't during the Vietnam War.

Please cite a source for this claim. I have never heard this before, and there were PLENTY of existing M1 and M2 carbines in inventory during the VN war.

 

[GRIZ22]

Plenty of GI carbines in Vietnam. There were still plenty of them around for federal LE agencies in the late 70s. Plainfields were for commercial consumption only. The good part about them is they will take GI parts. Plainfield Machine used a lot of surplus parts in their manufacture. One of the major parts they did make (other than the receiver) was the op rod. They just milled out the slot for the bolt lug thru (drilled out) to make it easier to machine. A GI oprod will work with a Plainfield.

 

[kaferhaus]

The "older" Universal carbines will also take GI parts and fit in GI stocks. The later style will accept only a few GI parts and will not fit in a GI stock.... and is in my opinion "junk" as the slides (stamped steel) tend to fracture.

 

[kir_kenix]

i had a dealer at the last show i went to that said the same thing about plainfield rifles. i kinda smirked it off and rolled my eyes...thought he was just making it up. never thought somebody else would have heard that too. why would they secretly make rifles for the gov't? idk, sounds kind of crazy, but if it was true then these rifles would be very, very collectable. hope this is true...because my old man has pbly has 15 and i have a couple.

 

[GRIZ22]

There was no reason for Plainfield to "secretly" make carbines. As I said plenty of GI carbines around.

The NVA would not think these are not US made weapons because they were made in New Jersey.

 

[VA27]

Ok guys, I found it:

"One final chapter on the M1 Carbine has been hushed up until this writing, Bill Stork of Plainfield Machine told me that he made M1 and M2 Carbines for the U.S. Army all through the Vietnam War. He said that because of the M16 being forced on the Army, the continued production and combat use of the Carbine was kept secret. It was the one assault rifle we had that worked during part of that conflict. Many Rangers and Special Forces troops preferred it for its light weight and fast-handling qualities."

Jack Lewis "The Gun Digest Book of Assault Weapons" (3rd Edition) ISBN 0-87349-139-4

I don't think anyone here would question the credibility of Jack Lewis.

You couldn't draw M1's out of the system without attracting someone's unwanted attention. But you could disguise purchases of new equipment without any trouble at all. (Do you think that Uncle Sam actually paid $600 for a hammer?)

Bob

 

[kir_kenix]

hey im s orry for doubting you man. that is really neat. i just figured since i have never seen a rebuilt plainfield like i have everything else. this is totally news to me and im sure just about everybody else. plainfields should then bring in the same prices (if not more because of them being kinda unique) as winchesters and the rest. i guess i learn new stuff everyday on here.

 

[VA27]

Jeepers, Kir! Keep this under your hat for a while, at least until I find a Plainfield cheap!

 

[Sunray]

Wood is wood. You use the same products and techniques on stocks you use on fine furniture.
Tung oil, applied correctly(wipe ot on with a clean lint free cloth and rub it in with another clean lint free cloth until it get friction warm, then let dry over night and repeat for about 5-7 days.), will give you a nice sheen. Put any stain on first though. The tung oil soaks into the wood about 1/4" and there's no staining(or removing the oil) after it's on. Tung oil gives a hard, waterproof finish. Scratch it? No big deal. Just rub in some more oil.
The late model Universals can use no milsurp parts. They're junk.
"...Plainfield is not a replica..." You're right. They're not replicas. They're exact copies. Milsurp parts go right in. Mind you, in the 30 some years I've had mine, I've never once had to change any part. It has given me no grief that a bath didn't fix. The only thing I've ever had to do was tweak the mag lips a tick on the one 30 round mag I have to get it to feed properly. Shaved down the grip area of the stock to get a better fit though. Mine really likes Speer 110 grain HP's with IMR4227. 13.5 to 15.0(compressed).
"...it has a little dent in it..." It's not a lapping job. It's a re-crowning job. Brownell's sells a tool or just have a shooting machinist touch it up.
M-1 carbines were in S.E Asia long before the U. S. got involved in VN. So were M-1 rifles. They were sent to Ho Chi Minh during W. W. II and to the ARVN later. No big secret.

 

[kir_kenix]

well, i finished my project. ended up putting about 5 coats of special walnut i put a coupla coats of that tru-oil on and im fairly happy w/ the results. i have a few dark spots where i didnt sand evenly or deep enough. not a professional job mind you, but thousands of times better then before. now you can get a glimpse of the wood grain underneath, whereas before it just had this burnt orange finish on it.

this is the finished stock...a few dark spots but otherwise im pretty happy w/ it.

my girlfriend wood burned my last name and year inside the stock. i think it looks really cool in olde english. if i would have known it would have turned out that well i wouild have had her do it on the outside.

and here is the finished project. i cant wait to take her out tomorrow and get her shooting again like she deserves.

next time i attempt a project like this i will have a better idea what i am doing and i know it will turn out a little nicer. who knows, in 20 years or so maybe ill get another try on this rifle...lol.

 

[ScottsGT]

Read:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=231272

Let me know what you think.

 

[kir_kenix]

those are some beautiful stocks you have there scottsgt. when i get around to refinishing something else i am going to try that method because that really brought out the contrast in the wood and they look beautiful. good work.

 

[ScottsGT]

Thanks for the good words.

Scott

 

[GRIZ22]

VA27 my apologies fro doubting you.

I would think that any Plainfield M1 carbine the military bought were either destroyed or sold thru the Civilian Marksmanship Program. There is also the possibilty of an unauthorized acquisition.

The secret part of this military acquisirion may have been an attempt to afford deniability that the US was providing weapons to someone. They could always say whatever organization they were supporting acquired the Plainfields commercially and not from the US government.

 

[VA27]

I'm thinking that any Plainfields were destroyed in place or left with indigenous troops. They couldn't very well bring back weapons that weren't supposed to exist! Of course, that doesn't rule out any vet bring backs. I'm sure there were some. There may come a time when some of those guns make it back to this country.

The secret part of this acquistion was most certainly deniability, but not as to country of origin. Sure, CIA could (and probably did) use them because they were "commercial" rifles and could be bought on the open market. But also remember, at that time the DoD (MacNamara) was forcing the Army to adopt the M16. The Army didn't want to and went so far as to rig and sabotage acceptance tests against the M16. Having the Carbines built was the Army's way of sticking it to DoD. But it had to be a secret or MacNamara would have chopped off some heads!

 

[AZ Jeff]

I wonder why Larry Ruth never mentioned the use of Plainfield M1 Carbines in VN in his "War Baby" series of reference books on the history of the carbine............

 

[Critter183]

Yeah, really Scott, that was some seriously fine work, and I'm going to use that method on my next rehab. Outstanding!

 

[Critter183]

Came out sweet kir!

 

[USSR]

I wonder why Larry Ruth never mentioned the use of Plainfield M1 Carbines in VN in his "War Baby" series of reference books on the history of the carbine............

Because this whole "Plainfield secretly made carbines for government" thing is bogus.

Don

 

[cane]

VA27, no one is questing Jack Lewis, but he is just quoting Bill Stock. During the initial years of the VN conflict, the issue weapon for the US ground forces was the M-14. M1/M2 carbines hadn't been issued nor produced for over 15 yrs. Unless Mr. Stock could produce purchase orders, shipping documents, or even a FSN I call it marketing BS.

 

[VA27]

Plenty of the guys I know who were on the ground there saw lots of Carbines. A chopper pilot of my aquaintance carried one over there, another carried an M3 "Grease Gun". I've seen several ''in country'' photos of SF, LRRP, Seals and Rangers carrying Carbines. One guy I know even brought his back.

The "marketing BS" thing doesn't fly because Plainfield had been out of business for years before that article was published.

If a project is "secret" you'll probably be hard pressed to find purchase orders or shipping documents that say "Carbine, 30 caliber, M1, 1 each". Who knows what the paperwork said? It was the sixties! I don't know that it happened, I'm just saying that it's entirely possible that it did.

"The past is another country; they do things differently there."

Bob

 

[md7]

Scott, hey man, really nice work you did work on those stocks.

 

[cane]

I did 2 tours in VN as an advisor with various South Vietnamese troops. All were armed with WWII US weapons, including M-1 Carbines. In my tours, I never saw a plainfield carbines. In addition I've never read about nor talked with anyone who used one there. If there are any VN veterans here who actually used a plainfield carbine, how about speaking up. And just for information, even "secret" projects leave a paper trail.