M1 Carbine value...

[LoonWulf]

Sorry for the poor info, ill get more when im at the shop next....

Anyway, one of the local shops Ive just started frequenting, has this carbine on the rack.
Its a rockola, looks to be complete with matching numbesr, exterior finish is ok/worn, and the barrel is pitted badly in the groves, but the lands are still sharp and pretty pit free.

That and a number of otherguns came into the shop from a older gentle man, or his wife, i didnt get the full story. Anyway, this and possibly a couple of other guns are war bring backs that were in the family. There isnt any paper work that we know of but they all look pretty good in terms of the story.

theres also what i THINK is a mint authentic para folder stock.

question being whats a fair offer, ive always wanted a carbine, and i think i can get this one pretty cheap

 

[hdwhit]

looks to be complete with matching numbesr

What matching numbers?

 

[MJD]

Real hard to give a value without more information. That said, given that it's a Rockola and in pretty worn shape, I'd still expect it fetch $800 at bottom dollar and $1000-$1600 more likely in my experience, IF the seller knows what they have. I'd be curious to know the serial number and type of rear sight, type of barrel band, etc....that would give more evidence to if it's a bring back or a good story!

The worn para stock, is it alone or in a rifle?

 

[Dog Soldier]

Yes, What matching numbers? Carbines used many manufacture parts from other companies. Quality Hardware was a parts supplier to Rockola. QH later assembled complete carbines. All original folding or paratrooper Carbines were made only by GMs Inland Div. A Rockola could be properly rebarreled without hurting the value. The M-1 Carbine is affectionately known as the "War Baby" has an interesting history.

 

[LoonWulf]

Sorry, repeating what the gun store guy said. I had the gun in one hand kid in the other, and im not super familiar with carbines.
There was also a mix master Garand on the wall but i couldnt hold it and the kid comfortably.

The para stocks got no gun attached. I assumed it was a replica, but after looking at the replicas vs originals im not 100%sure it isnt authentic....i just wanted it cause a para carb is COOL!!!....Ive got a gun coming into the shop in a week or so ill grab pictures...theres some neat stuff...beat up 1895 in 30-40, win model 70 not sure if its pre or post didnt check, some other stuff.

Heres a picture from the shops facebook page.

 

[Ibmikey]

I have a bring "bring back" Rockola in my collection and after over fifty years of collecting fairly know what is original and what is not. The reason for that is the difference in value today ( which is crazy high) as a rebuild with a rock barrel still brings a grand or more, all matched and the sky is the limit. No pricing could be attempted without many detailed photos. Same with the stock ( which would only be correct with an Inland and certain serial ranges) it could be a $125 repro or a $1500 original. I recently traded a M1A1 stock for an original Colt 1911A1 straight across and you should know the Colt is not a cheap item.
If the Rock is reasonable and has a correct barrel buy it....on the stock make sure you are paying for what you get...i believe all of the repro's have a selector switch cut out and will be absent thr wooden wall in front of the mag well...two easiest ways to spot...also metal will be parkerized on the rods and not blued. Good luck!

 

[Reloadron]

theres also what i THINK is a mint authentic para folder stock.

The M1A1 was the standard M1 Carbine fitted with a side folding stock. The Inland Division of General Motors was the sole manufacturer of the M1A1.

The Rock Ola you pictured is a rare M1 Carbine as Rock Ola delivered the fewest at about 228,500 rifles. While I do not see as many as I once did around here, at the gun shows, a good shooter now commands in the $800 - $1,000 range and guns like the Rock Ola even higher. Depending on asking price and condition I would buy it. Lbmikey pretty well covered it in that without the gun being seen buy a knowledgeable collector it is very difficult to impossible to know what you have.

Ron

 

[LoonWulf]

Thanks guys Ill go back in this weekend, hes only open all day on sat, and take a look and more pictures. Ill probably atleast make an offer on the carb, maybe try work it in as a package deal for the 1895 that trims cases for you upon firing.

 

[fpgt72]

The juke box company is one of the companies that people covet. Usually commanding a little more then a like example from others.

Quite a few people made them, I have one from IBM, being a computer guy I had to have that, and Winchester.

But to answer the question if it is in good shape, less then $1000 is a deal in todays market.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Based on the description, I'd be willing to pay $1000 for it. I'd look for advice on something like the Civilian Marksmanship forum before going much higher.

I recently got a nice CMP service grade Inland M1 Carbine for $685. It's a 5 digit S/N from 1942. Mine isn't for sale, but it would take $1000+ to get me to consider parting with it. I know some unscrupulous guys got 'em from CMP in the recent lottery with the intent to flip them for profit.

 

[LoonWulf]

Somebody snagged the carb, i didnt ask how much they were paying, but its on its way to texas. Hopefully the owner got a decent offer on it.

 

[luffy100]

wouldn't pat more than a $1000 for it.

 

[Ibmikey]

Loon, That is the trouble when dealing with weapons purchases, especially US milsurps, "ya snooze ya Loose" I have lost more than one good deal for not making an immediate I'll take it. My Rockola was purchased sight unseen because I knew the person who notified me of it going on the sale block and trusted his judgement. It has undocumented history as the daughter of a WWII vet (recently deceased) said her dad brought it back from the Pacific in his duffel. I paid a whooping $600 for it because that is the price she put on the rifle. Had I waited to go look at it I'm sure someone else would have beaten me to it. This Rockola is complete for the time period made as I have carefully researched it in my library, right to the RMC cartouche.
Hopefully another Carbine will find it's way into your hands.

 

[MJD]

I'm sorry to hear that you missed that one. If you're like most of us, dropping that kind of money isn't a snap decision. Especially so when it's a US milsurp and value can be strongly influenced by minuscule details. I would say you did okay by doing your research. If you're still in the market for a carbine, just keep your eyes peeled. For a shooter, any of the milsurp ones will do. Besides, you can barely see the dang maker's name under a non-Type 1 sight anyways!

I would also continue to pursue a repro paratrooper stock....maybe not as comfortable as a regular stock (my opinion), but I like having a pistol grip and it sure is handy. For 80-150 bucks for a used one, that's not too bad an investment.

 

[LoonWulf]

Im good with missing it, i couldnt have made a fair offer. I really just want one to shoot. Ill still check on the stock when i go in, hopefully this weekend.

 

[il_10]

I wouldn't pay more than $800, and I've been wanting a Rock Ola. I have an IBM riding in a repro A1 stock, and they're great little carbines, but the one in the picture has some issues and was almost certainly not a bring back unless we're talking Korea.

The type III barrel band with a bayonet lug wasn't approved until around April '44, and was only factory installed on some Winchesters and a few Quality Hardware rifles before the war's end. The adjustable rear sight is in about the same boat, almost certainly not original WWII issue. It has a later pot-belly stock, which I wouldn't be surprised to learn wasn't original. The front sight is missing its "ears," which was definitely not a wartime modification, and I can't imagine what purpose grinding them off would serve.

All in all, I would guess it's a post-WWII arsenal rebuild, which is no big deal, that's what my IBM is. But even as a Rock-Ola, this isn't a big money collector's item. And the front sight suggests some 'bubba-ing', which doesn't bode well either. Be glad you missed it, at any 'collector' price, you dodged a bullet.

 

[Sunray]

$800 is too much for one with a "badly pitted barrel". Regardless of make. Anyway, if the grooves are pitted but the lands are not, something is wrong.
"...a bring back..." Is a stolen rifle. At no time were the troopies allowed to keep their issue firearms. There are rumours of officers being permitted to buy their issue pistol, but not the OR's.
"...post-WWII arsenal rebuild..." That'd be 99.99% of all Carbines.
"...a mint authentic..." Highly unlikely. 'Mint' means brand new, unused and exactly as it came out of the factory. No such thing as Para stocks alone as I recall. Only came with an Inland Carbine attached.
No matching numbers either. Nearly all carbines with 'em was very likely made that way by somebody with too much time and money. Ditto for 99.99% of any so-called "all correct" Carbine.
"...1895 in 30-40..." Save your money. There's no ammo. .30-40 Krag is only loaded seasonally by Remington and Winchester. Ditto for brass.

 

[boom boom]

I think that gun digest folks have pricing guides as a smartphone app. Still need to know basic firearm grades though.

 

[LoonWulf]

from a glace the stock looked pretty minty to me, no obvious gouges or big dings. Again, im repeating what i was told beyond what i could see without actually picking anything up.

Im not horribly concerned about getting cases for the .30-40, theres factory ammo on the shelf at two stores i frequent. I actually asked about it once a while back, no one buys them. I AM concerned about the condition of the rifle, and again didnt get to handle it, but it looks rough from 10'. Also two shots fired (gun store guy not me), first seperated at the shoulder, second has crush lines going back to the head where it looks like gas leaked back around. I still wanna handle it and see if it wasnt an ammo issue, but its def more of a random musing then a real thought to buy it.

Im not a gun collector beyond the fact i collect guns...I buy stuff i think is cool, I really wanted a carbine, and the stock was already there which is what started this thought progression lol.
thanks again for the input guys

 

[CoalTrain49]

Carbines are a trick to put a value on. Most people with the knowledge to help you would want to hold it, inspect the bore, muzzle erosion and head space and look for import stamp on the barrel. Then they look for things like barrel dates to see if they match the receiver number block dates. That tells you if it has a new barrel. No big deal there, just used. Then there are cartouches on the stock that indicate a rebuild.

Collectors buy these guns and strip them for parts. Parts are worth more than a rifle that's been thru an arsenal rebuild. Rockola receiver is probably worth $400 stripped.

I bid $800 sight unseen. Maybe more if I can field strip it.

 

[Dog Soldier]

The .303 British brass can be run through your 30-40 die and it works better than the 30-40 brass. The .303 Brit ammo works in the Krag rifles. The opposite does not work.

The most rare "War Baby" .30 M1 Carbine is the Commercial Controls only 230 were ever made.

 

[Ibmikey]

Coal Train, I once could consider myself a "collector" of Carbines with about fifity in the racks at a given time, at no time did i ever strip one and sell the parts individually. In fact I have given and traded Carbines but have not been in the business of selling them, yes parts were often traded to bring one more closely to the way it was when first released but i did not go so far as to attempt to make a rebuilt carbine into an original one so as to decieve.
Sunray, Many items that came home with GI's at the conclusion of wars were simply listed as " contraband" and confiscated if found, US weapons were usually returned to depots and eventually back into the inventory. After the US began to sell surplus rifles and pistols the possession of one with "US Property" on it was no longer worth anyones time to find if it were stolen (except those capable of full auto) and the Gov could not account for much of it's inventory as in the pre computer days such records were never deemed to be kept up to date. Carbines were released first in 1963 and I went to work for a PD that same year, a DCM Carbine and 1911a1 were the seed for going crazy collecting nice examples through the years. Upon discovery of a carbine or 1911 in the possession of a bad guy there was no source offered by the Gov to say the weapon was stolen from them, we simply delt with the violations that led to the discovery and unless prohibited or part of the crime, the weapon was returned upon conclusion of the matter. Soon after my becoming a police officer the services changed to the M16 and there was absolutely no interest by the ATF to recover outdated firearms with no crime connected, I was told on occasion to "put it in the police armory". Again they would always come to get a select fire weapon simply to get it off the street and not to attempt to return it to the Army.
WWI and II US Property marked weapons flow freely through the trade and sale systems with no consideration given to reclaiming lost or stolen Gov property, and the Gov could not tell you how the weapon was disposed of anyway. D C M records (what remains) are in the possession of the CMP....their (CMP) records are more accurate than any Gov source.
I still have half of a frame of an as "unissued" condition 1911a1 Colt that ATF instructed me to cut through the serial number upon conclusion of the case, this was at a time when the pistol was still being issued and Viet nam was in full swing. Unknown to them every other part was transfered to an Essex frame and the pistol fired for many years before i traded it fo something exciting.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Coal Train, I once could consider myself a "collector" of Carbines with about fifity in the racks at a given time, at no time did i ever strip one and sell the parts individually. In fact I have given and traded Carbines but have not been in the business of selling them, yes parts were often traded to bring one more closely to the way it was when first released but i did not go so far as to attempt to make a rebuilt carbine into an original one so as to decieve.
Sunray, Many items that came home with GI's at the conclusion of wars were simply listed as " contraband" and confiscated if found, US weapons were usually returned to depots and eventually back into the inventory. After the US began to sell surplus rifles and pistols the possession of one with "US Property" on it was no longer worth anyones time to find if it were stolen (except those capable of full auto) and the Gov could not account for much of it's inventory as in the pre computer days such records were never deemed to be kept up to date. Carbines were released first in 1963 and I went to work for a PD that same year, a DCM Carbine and 1911a1 were the seed for going crazy collecting nice examples through the years. Upon discovery of a carbine or 1911 in the possession of a bad guy there was no source offered by the Gov to say the weapon was stolen from them, we simply delt with the violations that led to the discovery and unless prohibited or part of the crime, the weapon was returned upon conclusion of the matter. Soon after my becoming a police officer the services changed to the M16 and there was absolutely no interest by the ATF to recover outdated firearms with no crime connected, I was told on occasion to "put it in the police armory". Again they would always come to get a select fire weapon simply to get it off the street and not to attempt to return it to the Army.
WWI and II US Property marked weapons flow freely through the trade and sale systems with no consideration given to reclaiming lost or stolen Gov property, and the Gov could not tell you how the weapon was disposed of anyway. D C M records (what remains) are in the possession of the CMP....their (CMP) records are more accurate than any Gov source.
I still have half of a frame of an as "unissued" condition 1911a1 Colt that ATF instructed me to cut through the serial number upon conclusion of the case, this was at a time when the pistol was still being issued and Viet nam was in full swing. Unknown to them every other part was transfered to an Essex frame and the pistol fired for many years before i traded it fo something exciting.

I only have one carbine now. I had two awhile back and sold one complete. I've never stripped one to sell as parts. I'm with you, they were all rebuilt at some point with parts from every maker so why try to reverse the history of the rifle. My Inland has a Winchester barrel on it, and it shoots pretty well, the reason I kept it.

I actually have more fun shooting them than collecting new ones, plus my safe is full.

 

[Acera]

Some people use the term 'mixmaster' as a derogatory term about these rifles and the Garands, it just shows their ignorance about history and common practices in the military. They were made to be used, fixed, refreshed, repaired, then sent back into service to do their primary job. Not meant to be pristine collector items for a select group of people who only want them in NIB shape. Embrace the scratches, non-original parts and appreciate the guns for what they are and what they contributed to our nation.



.

 

[Dog Soldier]

It seems the GIs of WWII did not clean their Garands. When they became fouled they would break the butt stocks and turn them in. The field armors would rebuild and replace the parts.