Sharps or Smiths carbine?

[TheOutlawKid]

Ive been thinking about getting a breech loading rifle but cant seem to decide on a sharps or smiths carbine. Ive not handled either enough to make a decision... except for handling a sharps some years back but i didnt pay it much mind, and i cant check any out locally as we have no local gun shops that sell black powder arms. I know that i want to shoot using home made paper cartridges, be able to hunt with it if possible/need be, and have the gun have some decent precision out to 100-150 yards...if not more. So ive narrowed it down to the two carbines ive mentioned. Any of you out there own one or both or have experience with them and would like to share your thoughts and opinions? Im going to be shooting mainly black powder with the occasional Black MZ. Any little quirks these rifles have that isnt mentioned much but you feel are either a perk or a nuisance? In which catagories does one excell moreso than the other? Pros, cons, myths, facts, and opinions are all welcomed. Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[AlexanderA]

The Sharps and the Smith are not directly comparable because the Sharps uses conventional (combustible) paper cartridges while the Smith uses proprietary plastic or brass shells.

You might want to also consider the Spencer repeater.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

I would consider the spencer although i want a percussion rifle and preferably the use of paper cartridges. Can the smith not use a combustible paper cargridge? I was under the impression that it can although i don't know for a fact. I do know they originally used rubber cases.

 

[arcticap]

I did some searching in the archives:

1. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ps-reproduction-carbines.786070/#post-9991261

2. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/breech-loading-bp.759830/#post-9592180

3. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bp-on-paper.812553/#post-10397283

4. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/54-sharps-paper-carts.807986/#post-10325259

5. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1863-sharps-shootin.782129/

6. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-in-bore-when-reloading.773609/#post-9807781

7. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...h-italian-sharps-replica.751294/#post-9461678

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Thanks articap! I had already read a few of those and they were helpful but there hasnt been anything new posted for some time. Im hoping members who havent seen/posted on the old posts will chime in and that i may hear something new. Mr.Articap, do you own any of the rifles?

 

[woodnbow]

You might try the n-ssa forum for more information on the two carbines. Those guys know those rifles very well.

 

[arcticap]

Thanks articap! I had already read a few of those and they were helpful but there hasnt been anything new posted for some time. Im hoping members who havent seen/posted on the old posts will chime in and that i may hear something new. Mr.Articap, do you own any of the rifles?

No I don't own one.
But I did want to relearn what I had forgot about them.
And I also watched a video about shooting an original Sharps.
I hope you find the model that suits you.

 

[StrawHat]

The paper cutter Sharps is a nice carbine, if you can find one. They have some chamber issues but nothing that ca not be dealt with. It will be a decent hunting rifle.

The Smith is similar but if I remember correctly, needs the proper cases or there is a lot of blow your.

Both are available in original or replica variations.

Another one to consider is the Burnside carbine. The second most used breech loading carbine used in the ACW, it is short and handy but still packs a wallop.

The Smith and Burnside both need proprietary cases but so what?!? How many are you really going to use? I have 25 for my Burnside and find that to be a full day on targets. I only carry 3 when hunting.

And speaking of hunting, 150 yards will be steching the abilities of these carbines and sights. Better to stalk in a bit closer and keep the shots under 100 yards.

Kevin

 

[Mike OTDP]

As a Skirmisher, I can speak with a small bit of knowledge...
The Smith needs either a brass or plastic tube. They are reusable. The plastic tubes are not terribly expensive.
The Sharps can be loaded with paper cartridges - Charlie Hahn has a good setup. But there's also a plastic tube like a syringe...it seats the bullet and powder charge. Those are actually more accurate.
The Burnside...it's a bit of a sleeper. You'll need tubes, definitely. The best results appear to be with round balls, from what I've heard.

My own gun? Romano 1st Model Maynard.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr. strawhat and mr. Mike OTDP, thank you for your feedback & sharing your opinions based on experience. Im leaning more towars a sharps replica...i cant afford a working original of any of the above models...ill actually be counting my pennies just to get the sharps haha. I want to have it mainly for target shooting...i also want to put a scope on it...one thats period correct somewhat such as the old tasco brass scopes or maybe a Malcom scope.

 

[AlexanderA]

.I also want to put a scope on it...one that's period correct somewhat such as the old tasco brass scopes or maybe a Malcom scope.

If you want to put a scope on it, get a Sharps rifle instead of a carbine. Any kind of scope (even a period-correct one) would be totally out of place on a carbine.

 

[Jim Watson]

From what I have READ, the Smith suffers from thick walls on the reusable plastic and brass cases. Capacity is small, around 30 grains, which is fine for blank popping or target shooting, but holds the velocity down. The original rubber cartridges must have been thinner, powder charge is said to have been 50 grains for 950 fps.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.alexander, thanks for the heads up. Yeah ive noticed the carbine is a bit too short for a long malcom scope although i have seen some short ones that should fit a carbine, they were made after the civil war (from what i read) and would be period correct. But at this point the scope is just a "maybe". Mr. Jim watson...thanks for the info about the weaker charge...i looked into it and lots of people talk about the plastic cartridges take up precious powder space and make for some weak rounds...and 30 grains seems to be the average on what they allow. Ive read of some folks reaming out some of the thick walled cartridges to make more space but at this moment i guess im leaning more towards the sharps.

 

[Jim Watson]

Shiloh has a forum on the 1863 "capping breechloader" (as the British say.)
Lots of experience there.
https://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=715cf7d304a69aa94149d472b27f30c2

Speaking British, I wish somebody would reproduce the Westley Richards "Monkeytail carbine."

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I know that i want to shoot using home made paper cartridges, be able to hunt with it if possible/need be,

I think then you are talking Sharps all the way. Not sure about your state, but in Maryland you could not use the Smith's carbine to hunt deer due to the under powered load.

LD

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Thanks mr. Jim watson! I will definately check it out!

 

[StrawHat]

You are going to have a hard time finding a paper cutter sharps replica. I believe neither Shiloh nor C Sharps is building a percussion model.

Garrett is also not building them but can occasionally be found used. So, if you are stuck on paper cartridges...

Brass cartrtdges are another story.

Kevin

 

[AlexanderA]

but at this moment i guess im leaning more towards the sharps.

Dixie Gun Works has the following prices right now on repro percussion Sharps:

Chiappa carbine --- ?
Chiappa rifle --- $1,350
Pedersoli carbine --- $1,295
Pedersoli rifle --- $1,595