M1 Garand Trouble - Require THR Expertise

[aspree]

Hello, everyone -

Yesterday, I went out and "shot" my M1 Garand for the first time. I put "shot" in quotations, because I was only able to shoot one round off.

Before I get into the problem, I feel I should give some background information.

I had my Garand rebarreled for a .308 cartridge. I was shooting commercial ammo, so I bought and installed a Schuster adjustible gas plug. I left the plug in the "wide open" position so that I could eventually adjust the gas pressure so that the Garand would fire commercial ammo without damaging the op rod.

I loaded an enbloc clip with 8 rounds of .308, tapped the op rod, and fired that first shot. Boom! What a feeling! Nothing wrong so far. The casing didn't eject, as expected. I pulled back on the op rod, ejected the spent cartridge, and ejected the enbloc clip - since I didn't want to make the necessary gas plug adjustment with a loaded gun.

After making the gas plug adjustment, I loaded another 8 rounds into the enbloc clip, tapped the op rod and got ready to fire. Click. Nothing.

Worse, when I tried to pull the op rod back to eject the unshot round, it wouldn't budge. I couldn't move the op rod back no matter how hard I pulled. Thankfully, the shooter next to me had a hammer so we were able to carefully hammer the op rod back enough to "unjam" it and eject the unshot cartridge and the enbloc clip.

I field stripped the Garand just to see if everything was all right. Realizing that I had no idea what I was doing, I put it back together again and hoped it was just a dud round.

I then loaded a single round (without the use of the enbloc clip) into the barrel, tapped the op rod, and pulled the trigger. Click. Nothing. Same thing - the op rod was jammed and wouldn't pull back. I felt like an idiot asking the shooter next to me if I could borrow his hammer again.

At this point, he mentioned that I should have had a "spacer" to help load the .308 round into the barrel, since the .308 is shorter than the .30-06. However, I'm not sure if that's entirely the problem. That doesn't explain how the gun malfunctioned when I loaded a single round by hand into the barrel.

I'm also pretty sure the gas plug had nothing to do with the problem, but I could be wrong.

My only guess is that I must have damaged something when I successfully fired that first round. I field stripped the Garand when I first got it, so perhaps I didn't correctly put it back together again. But why would the rifle fire the first time and not the next two?

Any help or advice would be extremely appreciated! Thank you.

 

[strat81]

What does your bolt and firing pin look like?

 

[foghornl]

Any firing pin 'dent' in the primer of the unfired round?

How did the fired primer look? normal, shallow, pierced? Did the bolt fully close-n-lock?

I'm sure that Swampy or eclancy (or another of The M1 Gurus) will be along shortly with the correct anaswer.

 

[30Cal]

Sounds like the rifle is bleeding way too much gas. Put in a USGI gas plug and see how it goes. Use good surplus ammo and make sure you have a USGI or equivalent orpod spring (don't use an "extra power" spring--JC Garand would have included it in the design if it was in fact better).

The spacer block prevents you from loading 30-06 into a .308 rifle. That's all it does.

 

[Slamfire]

I had my Garand rebarreled for a .308 cartridge. I was shooting commercial ammo,

Worse, when I tried to pull the op rod back to eject the unshot round, it wouldn't budge.

My opinion. You have one tight chamber. The ammunition you are firing is oversized for your rifle chamber.

When you load the ammunition, the bolt is swaging it down. Now you have an interference fit in the chamber. Because you don't have the big lever arm of a bolt gun, nor the long cocking cams, pulling that ammo out of your chamber is difficult.

I do not know why your ammo did not go bang. If the bolt was fully closed, it should have. Unless you have a busted firing pin. If the bolt was not fully closed, the receiver bridge is blocking the firing pin, like it is supposed to.

My suggestion. Remove the bolt. Point the muzzle down. Take one of your factory rounds and drop it in the chamber. It should go all the way in. If you have to push it in, your gunsmith needs to buy a new reamer. The old one is worn out.

Tell us how it goes. No use posting incorrect and bad advice if we don't know it.

 

[GarandOwner]

Few things I would check:

1. As mentioned before, check the primer.

2. CLEAN AND GREASE THE RIFLE, I have a feeling this might be your problem. One of the main causes for the Garand not to unlock is a dirty chamber or lack of lubrication. You'd be surprised how many problems are solved by this, some rounds have a laquer around the primer which can build up on the firing pin causing it not to fire, or have a delyed fire. If there isnt any grease on the locking recesses and the bolt track, then the bolt feels heavy and hard to unlock because it doesnt have any lube. Make sure you use GREASE and not OIL. (If you havent gotten some allready, get some surplus "Garand Grease") you can find it on gunbroker.com or ebay for really cheap.

3. When the round is chambered, is it chambered all the way? Or can you see the lip of the bolt. If you hold the op rod when the round cycles, it might not have enough energy for the extractor to make it over the head of the bullet. Or you might have a tight chamber, you will hear the click, but no boom

4. If you take your rifle apart, and check the bolt, see if the firing pin "floats freely" when you tilt the bolt side to side, if it doesnt slide out when you tilt your bolt forward, give your bolt a good cleaning until it does.

5. It may seem silly, but make sure your op rod is on track, though if this was your problem, Im sure you would of noticed it.

 

[mindwip]

Yesterday, I went out and "shot" my M1 Garand for the first time. I put "shot" in quotations, because I was only able to shoot one round off.

If its your first time shooting the rifle i would tear it down and clean it. Then lube it. Make sure to use grease.


Is this the first time you shot it since you made it a new cal.?

 

[Sunray]

Take it back to the guy who installed the barrel. The rifle he worked on doesn't work.
"...if that's entirely the problem..." Nope. That has nothing to do with failing to fire.

 

[P-32]

I would take the rifle back to the gun plummer. As 30 Cal said the spacer is to keep a clip full of '06 from going into the rifle, even though you would never get the bolt closed anyways.

There is some sort of issue going on if you have to beat the bolt open with a hammer. There could be some sort of burr in the chamber. There could be some metal shavings left over from reaming the chamber. What I don't understand is why the rifle would not fire. If the bolt is closed and the hammer falls there should be a good strike on the primer. If not, well your plumber should figure it out.

I have a tuned up 308 M-1 which I use for match shooting. The only problem I've run into with it is I had to replace the op rod spring once. The rifle was short stroking. I replaced the op rod spring with a Wolf extra power spring which my plummer said he used to start off with.

I shoot GI pressure ammo either by dipping out of my stash, or by reloading. (Both '06 and 308.) I would also add any round chambered should have it's primer "dimpled" with a firing pin mark left by the firing pin when it slid forword when the bolt closed.

 

[Steve in PA]

Don NOT use "extra power springs" as they cause more problems than anything else.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Let's take it step by step. An unfired round jams in the chamber. Unless there's something inside the chamber (and you should be able to see it) causing that, then either your chamber is too tight, or your cases are oversize. If these are new cases, it must be the chamber. If they are reloads, they're not properly sized.

Get a new, factory round and strip your rifle (remove the bolt.) Insert the factory round by hand into the clean chamber. It should go in easily, and fall out by itself when the barrel and receiver group are pointed uip. If not, tight chamber.

If the rifle fails to fire, check the primer. If there is a strong firing pin indentation, you have an ammo problem. If not, either the firing pin is broken, or the rifle is firing out of battery. (The M1 will release the hammer when out of battery. The firing pin, however, will not hit the primer.)

If the problems are not ammo-caused, I'd send this rifle back to the guy who installed the barrel.

 

[P-32]

Don NOT use "extra power springs" as they cause more problems than anything else.

Not to be arugementive, Steve, but my 308 M-1 was tuned by one of the better and well known plummers in the High Power circles. I have 2 other '06 M-1's which I use for John C. Grand matches and use stock springs. I shot one of them at the National John C. Grand match at Camp Perry this year and shot a fair score. Using a extra power spring in my 308 has not caused problems. In fact I have won money and matches with it.

Do I know everything about M-1's. Absolutely not. If I had the OP's rifle and ammo in my hands though I could figure out what was going on in short order as I believe most here could as well.

 

[10X]

This is an unfired round jamming in the chamber. I hope that by "commercial" you mean new manufactured ammo from a reputable manufacturer, not remanufactured or the like.

If these rounds are regular commercial new rounds then the problem has to be the chamber.

The rifle is not going into battery when the bolt tries to close. Pulling the trigger will release the hammer and it will snap, but the rifle won't fire if it is out of battery. The firing pin never reaches the primer.

Solution: Take the rifle back to the person that put on the barrel.

 

[Never No More]

My 06 M1 has worked flawlessly for years.

If it aint broke, dont fix it

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Amen!

The Garand was designed for the .30-06. Leave it in .30-06 and it will be perfectly happy.

 

[aspree]

Thank you all for your advice. Looking back, I probably should've kept the M1 in its original .30-06 state, but for now I've got to deal with what's in front of me.

I'll go home tonight and try dropping a round into the barrel to see if there's a tight chamber. Then I'll check out the bolt and re-grease the gun. Assuming everything checks out up until this point, I'll probably go back to the range and see if it was just a lack of grease. If the gun locks up again, I'll send it back to the Garand Guy and have him fix it up.

Thanks again for the advice and I'll update accordingly.

 

[P-32]

Cut the guy some slack here. 7.62 M-1's where built for the Navy by Springfield. And to tell you the truth I don't know anyone who would turn down an Navy Mark 2. At least it's not a Tanker.

 

[AK103K]

What does the case that fired look like? Anything out of the ordinary? Any signs that something might be up?

How about the loaded rounds that came out? Any strange marks on them?

This may sound strange, but is the bore clear? The rounds that came out arent set back at all are they?

I've had a couple of 30-06 M1's and right now have a .308 M1. The .308 has never been a problem, using both GI and reloads. Rifles in both calibers work and pretty much shoot the same. If anything, the .308 is slightly more accurate.

I'd strip and clean the rifle. Check to see the firing pin is moving freely and protrudes when pushed forward. I'd also try dropping a round or two into the chamber with the bolt out, and again with the bolt in, without the spring on and see how it feels. It should go freely without forcing it.

 

[P5 Guy]

Is the barrel a new .308 or did the builder use a collar to reduce the chamber down to the .308 length?

 

[ScottsGT]

Seeing that it is the Garand Guy, it most likely is a .308 barrel. Tony usually does real good work. He installed a new .30-06 Citadel barel on my latest Garand that I'm going to give to my Son for his 18th Birthday. But then again, I have yet to fire mine too!

 

[Onmilo]

Click instead of bang and no indent on the primer means the gun is not fully going into battery.

Are you loading 7.62X51 NATO cartridges into a chamber cut for .308 Winchester commercial loads??

Your headspace should be 1.634" to 1.638" to safely shoot 7.62X51 NATO dimension cartridges.
If your rifle is headspaced 1.630"-1.633" this may be part of your problem.

Try some .308 designated cartridges such as Winchester/USA 150 FMJs and see if that helps.

If you have a local gunsmith with a full set of .308 headspace guages, have him dimension your chamber.

By the way, I use an extra power recoil spring in my .308 Garand and have absolutely no problems with it.HTH

 

[aspree]

Update

Couple of updates and pictures to hopefully resolve this problem and get my Garand firing.

Bullet:
- The fired round has a nice "dimple" on the primer. Here's the picture:


- The .308 round that didn't fire also has a dimple, but smaller and less prounounced than the fired round. I don't know much about guns, but I'm guessing this is either a dud round or the firing pin didn't hit the primer hard enough? Here are two pictures:

and


- According to Tony (The Garand Guy), it's a new .308 barrel and I was using .308 ammunition (not the 7.62 NATO).

Chamber and Barrel:
- I took apart the gun and tried dropping a .308 round into the chamber, just as some of you recommended. I don't exactly know how far the round is supposed to drop, but I did notice that it did NOT fall out when I turned the gun over. Here are two pictures:

and


- I tried pushing the bullet further into the chamber but it wouldn't budge.
- I'm guessing that since the bullet did not easily slide in and out of the chamber/barrel, I might have to send it back to get this problem fixed. Is this what caused my op rod to jam after I unsuccessfully fired the dud round and couldn't move my op rod back to eject the round?

- Here are pictures of the chamber and the bolt. Maybe there's something that expert eyes will pick up immediately.

and


Other Concerns:
Is there anything wrong with how far back my bolt is when the op rod is pulled back and locked? Here's the picture:


- When the op rod is pulled back and locked, and I depress the magazine feed(?) with my finger (while maintaining a slight grip on the op rod, to prevent Garand Thumb), is the op rod and bolt supposed to come shooting forward? I notice that even when I press the magazine feed halfway, the bolt and op rod are still locked back. I need to actually pull the op rod back a little bit further (while simultaneously pressing down on the magazine feed) to "unlock" the op rod and make the bolt slam forward. I'm curious as to whether this is common or not.

It's my first time posting pictures, so I hope they come out.

Any advice or help would be much appreciated.

 

[ScottsGT]

- When the op rod is pulled back and locked, and I depress the magazine feed(?) with my finger (while maintaining a slight grip on the op rod, to prevent Garand Thumb), is the op rod and bolt supposed to come shooting forward? I notice that even when I press the magazine feed halfway, the bolt and op rod are still locked back. I need to actually pull the op rod back a little bit further (while simultaneously pressing down on the magazine feed) to "unlock" the op rod and make the bolt slam forward. I'm curious as to whether this is common or not.

This sounds normal. I'm thinking head space is too tight.

 

[Grump]

I'm with ScottsGT. Something in the chamber is too tight.

The pictures gave us what we needed. FP protrusion is good, it's not broken off at the tip (that *does* happen), and the "click" round shows light firing pin strike consistent with the bolt not being rotated closed when the hammer drops.

Betcha that when you were pounding on the op rod, it had never gone fully forward, and the bolt was not fully locked. The hammer's camming surface will tend to close the bolt a bit more, further jamming the round in the chamber.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Whoever set the barrel never set the headspace properly using a pullthrough reamer would be my guess. The reamer goes into the chamber where the bullet goes and is headspaced to fit the length from the bolt to the end of the chamber once the bolt locks up.
OTOH If you are using Civilian ammunition in a really tight military 7.62 Nato chamber then you are likely not fitting those rounds into full battery.
Count your lucky stars and look at that slight indent in the round in the picture.. the bolt lugs did not fully rotate and go into battery. The firing pin almost made it.
Take it to a Gunsmith to use a pull through reamer for that 7.62 Nato cartridge.