M1-garand vs M14

[Skipper]

No doubt the M14 has superior gas system and improved op rod for whatever that's worth, but the fact is, between these two rifles, it's the man who'll make the difference,not the gas system or the loading method. Yep, it's definately the man.
Regards,
SKIP

 

[Dienekes]

Shot a "Chosin Reservoir" combat match last year that involved three man teams firing on steel plates with M1s at 200 yards from prone. The targets were Guard-furnished automatic resetting ones.

Yes, there was a fair amount of "pings" and reloading, but it was truly impressive to see what the M1 can do. We caught some hell because we were continually hitting the targets as they tried to reset and that is apparently not good for the target. However when your adrenalin is up and you're having fun it's hard to slow down. If you define firepower as bullets hitting things then the M1 has it.

Other than liking the M1A too (and I have shot the M14 as well) I am perfectly satisfied with the Garand. The 20 round mag of the M1A is nice, but loaded ones have to be carried someplace and the empty ones aren't expendable like M1 clips. Loaded clips can be tucked away in lots of places in addition to bandoliers and ammo belts. The M1A can be scoped fairly easily--that may be the one big tie-breaker.

So far I can still manage with the irons so grabbing the M1 is not much of a decision. The day may come when I put an ACOG on the M1A but if it does I will miss the lesser weight and handiness of the iron-sighted rifles.

 

[gaven]

MY REBARRELED M1 IN 7.62 NATO IS VERY ACCURATE AND ITS TRUE YOU CAN MOUNT A SCOPE ON A M1A EASIER THAN YOU CAN AN M1 . BUT WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PUT A SCOPE ON AN M1.

 

[jaimeshawn]

Have both - I like the Garand better.

 

[mustanger98]

MY REBARRELED M1 IN 7.62 NATO IS VERY ACCURATE AND ITS TRUE YOU CAN MOUNT A SCOPE ON A M1A EASIER THAN YOU CAN AN M1 . BUT WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PUT A SCOPE ON AN M1.

Scoping an M1 makes sense if we're discussing the M1C and M1D which were sniper versions. But scoping one as a "sporting" feature don't make sense at all, IMO.

 

[Roudy]

I used to shoot on several rifle teams while in the Marine Corps. Shot both the M1 and the M14. The M14 can be loaded as fast as the M1 with lots of practice.

When the M14's magazine is empty put your thunb on the magazine release and push forward, don't grasp the magazine. Grab the prepositioned reload magazine and slap it into the receiver and release the operating rod on your way back to the wrist of the rifle. It takes longer to explain it that to do it.

 

[Swampy]

Roland Beaver.

My memory is horrible.

Ah..... I was going to mention Roland Beaver, but your referrence to the SouthEast threw me. Mr. Beaver lives in Arkansas. I thought of Hook Bouton, who lives in Florida, but I don't recall ever hearing that he was a Marine armorer. He may have been..... don't know, just never heard.

A coincidence too.... Mr. Beaver is in the process of turning a Stainless Obermeyer blank into a .308 M1 tube for me. He will be installing it on my IHC Match Grade and freshening up the bedding in the near future. Hopefully it will be complete in time for Spring warmup events.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[444]

When you live in Nevada, Arkansas is in the Southeast.
It's in the south, and way east of here.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I forgot why, but John Garand, who was hired as a consultant to develop the M-14, didn't care for the White Gas system that was used on the M-14.

 

[mustanger98]

I don't know about that either.

I do know that while some posters are saying the M1's gas system is not adjustable, we now have Schuster adjustable gas nuts.

 

[amprecon]

I have no desire to rechamber my Garand to .308, I'm perfectly fine with the very acceptable accuracy the .30-06 provides. I don't plan on shooting matches with it.

 

[Sam]

I much prefer the M1 to the M14/M1A.
I don't see the 20 rounder as an advantage, much preferring the volume fire to come from a machine gun of some sort. It also hinders a really low prone,
something I really appreciate. It also does not carry as well as the M1. Magazine is right where my hand wants to be.

In civillian life the M1 is still tops.
The 06 chambering really helps in a hunting arm, permitting heavy bullets to be used that don't work well in the M14/M1A. Even before the Schuster adjustable plugs, many of us made our own vented gas cylinder plugs and loaded as hot and heavy as the 06 can take without any problem.
I am currently toying with the idea of making an M1 in 35 Whelan.

Sam

 

[BamBam-31]

My mind says M14/M1a, my heart says M1 Garand.

 

[possum]

just get you a 30rd mag for the M1A if you need more ammo than that you are in a bad way!

 

[meef]

As to the "which of the two rifles is faster to reload" discussion.

Now I'm not getting into the defense against hordes of zombies or anything scenario, but for purely "reload time" considerations.....

Let's say I want to put a quick 40 rounds downrange, for whatever reason.

Start with a loaded M1A - then reload once.

Start with a loaded Garand - then reload four times.

Which is faster to reload?

FWIW - I've had several of each. I just like the M1A better. Personal preference.

 

[Skipper]

SWAMPY,
Hook lives in Breman,Ga. He's around 80 or so and still "building".
Info on him can be found with a Goggle search.
Regards,
SKIP

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I don't know about that either.

I do know that while some posters are saying the M1's gas system is not adjustable, we now have Schuster adjustable gas nuts.

You beat me to it. I have one of those, but haven't tried it yet. I guess it works on the same principle at the integral adjustment valve on the FN FAL's gas system.

 

[30Cal]

Anyone who can load an M14 (the standard model) without pretty much dismounting the rifle has my compliments. It's a clumsy maneauver supporting the rifle and rocking magazines in and out.

I've seen M1's and M14s during a rattle battle. The M14 can shoot a little faster, but I think the capability to score more misses is overrated. FWIW, I've seen a guy get through four clips in 50 seconds and would have been halfway through a fifth if he didn't have to dig it out of a bandolier.

Many armorers will tell you that the M1 can be made more accurate than the M14 because the gas port is at the very end of the barrel. In match flavor, both rifles are pretty far from battle shape, but the M14 is much more durable in that setup.

I like the gas system on the M1 a little better--it tends to keep itself clean, but both will run for a long time.

 

[roo_ster]

Sight Radius

M1: 27.9"
M14: 26.75"

Does anyone think that a difference of 1.2" of sight radius would make a difference?

When I went from the M16A2 to the M4A1, the lesser sight radius gave me some trouble...I had to spend a lick more time ensuring a good sight picture.

 

[Roudy]

Anyone who can load an M14 (the standard model) without pretty much dismounting the rifle has my compliments. It's a clumsy maneauver supporting the rifle and rocking magazines in and out.QUOTE]

It is not necessary to 'rock' the magazine to get it out of the M14 rifle. Drop the rifle from your shoulder and press the carth with your thumb and push forward. To insert a fresh magazine insert the forward edge of the magazine and pull back and up vigorously.

If you can't remove a magazine without rocking it back and forth, then the magazine or magazine well needs to be adjusted. A well trained person with a properly adjusted rifle should be able to re-charge the M14, including releasing the bolt and reshouldering the rifle in about 5 seconds.....maybe less with lots of motivation.

Don't remember seeing anyone reload an M14 without taking the rifle out of their shoulder, but I suppose if a person's arms were long enough it could be possible.

 

[30Cal]

What I meant was that you have to be a little forceful when removing and installing mags on the M14 and that it would be pointless to try to keep the rifle on target while doing it. It would be a much more difficult task with the rifle shouldered--again, if you can point an M14 on target offhand with your trigger hand only, you've got muscles where the rest of us don't.

 

[KriegHund]

again, if you can point an M14 on target offhand with your trigger hand only, you've got muscles where the rest of us don't.

Dunno, i just grabbed the Mauser (not the carbine) out of the closet and i could hold the mauser freehanded. I have to keep the stock tight against the shoulder and use friction to hold it.

I have a better idea. Lets try changing mags with my mini-14, while keeping the sights up and weapon shouldered. Experiemnts are the ebst way to find out.
I managed to keep the target (a coke can) in my vision the entire time. With training and practice you could probably do it very quickly.
Try it, and keep it tight against your shoulder to use the friction rather than arm strength.

One nice thing about the M1 is that you dont have to rack the slide after inserting a new en-bloc clip. That saves you time. Of course, you only have to rack the slide on the M-14 if you used up your entire mag.

Reloading with the m-14 takes more time, but you have to do it less. I can well believe that someone with an M1 can keep up an equal rate of fire (in semi auto) with an M-14.

Then again one advantage of the M-14 is that you dont have to dig out as many en-bloc clips. So your chance of a screwup is a little less likely.

 

[Ian]

If you want to see good rifle reloads, go to a 3-gun match or IPSC-style rifle match. Those guys are fast. Two to three seconds for an M1A reload (without bringing it off the shoulder) is not uncommon for a good shooter. I compete with a tanker M1 and I love it, but I would have to get my loading time down to literally 1 second to match a skilled M1A driver.

The problem reloading an M1 is that it feeds from the top, so you have to dismount the rifle to get a new clip in. An M1A doesn't require that, which makes up for the advantages the en blocs do have.

 

[stoky]

IMHO It's not so much about loading or reloading, but getting quickly into a stable position and putting the first, oh, let's say eight rounds, where they belong, rather than worrying about how quickly I can fire the twenty first round. Horde repelling and game boy whiz bang not withstanding.

 

[Father Knows Best]

The problem reloading an M1 is that it feeds from the top, so you have to dismount the rifle to get a new clip in. An M1A doesn't require that, which makes up for the advantages the en blocs do have.

I'm not following you. I can reload my Garand without taking it off my shoulder.