M16/AR mags: Fully capacity or "down by two"?

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Every round of .223/5.56 that I own is on strippers, 9 rds. to a stripper. When I load a 30 rd. mag it takes 3 strippers, or 27 rds. A 20 rd. mag takes 2 strippers or 18 rds. That's the way I was taught decades ago and it has always worked for me.

Like someone said earlier, if 27 rds. of ammo doesn't resolve the situation it's doubtful an extra 2 or 3 rds. will.
 
Nobody else loads from stripper clips? What do I do with the #29 and #30 cartridges? Throw them away?

I use 30. Works for me. I tried it.
 
Has anyone else heard the "prevent sprung feed lips" argument?
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Uh, since when are the feed lips ever going to smack the bottom of the bolt carrier? Seems to me that there is an engagement surface on the bottom of the mag catch to prevent too-deep insertion.
 
Hey, I know the answer to this!!

The practice of loading 18 in a 20 round mag started when the rifle was a new item and so were the mags. It's possible to install the spring backwards when re-assembling it. Causes feed problems if loaded to capacity because it tilts the follower. Guys in the field are no longer allowed to disassemble magazines, problem solved. The myth lives on, though. As for 30 round mags, the tradition (myth) of downloading by two got passed along. Yes, they are easier to seat if downloaded, but they can be seated full. If they don't, something is out of spec.

I carried several M-16A2 and M-16A2-E3 rifles in the service with both 20 and 30 round mags. No problems, ever. My personal rifle is a DPMS lower and 30 rd. GI mags, a few 20 rounders for coyote hunting. Same thing.
 
testing and training with your equipment is, of course, crucial if you intend to use it to save your life. my earlier comment wasn't meant to say otherwise. after testing all of my magazines in all of my rifles ihave discovered that all the gi mags work just fine on a closed bolt with full capacity. all that is required is the same push, tap and tug technique that should be used regardless of the round count in your magazines. i also discovered that the two british steel sa-80 magazines don't like to latch into place when completely full so this has convinced me to download those two magazines by one round. i imagine there can be alot of variance in magazine and receiver dimensions so i'm sure some people will run into trouble but i don't. i also don't have a bunch of after market crap on my magazines. the only thing on them is a layer of 100mph tape around the bottom to keep them from rattling as badly in their mag pouches.

when my unit was activated for the homeland security mission they assigned us to augment the airforce security forces. every day when we armed up they issued full thirty round magazines and we press checked each of them to ensure that we were actually issued our full load of ammunition. were we to turn in the magazines with a single round missing we would have been facing ucmj action. the rifles were then cleared at a clearing barrel with another soldier assisting as overwatch and a *gasp* full magazine was inserted on a closed bolt. there was no other authorized way to do it. in afghanistan there was no real accountability for each round, though and had i wanted to i could have downloaded my magazines. i saw no need to though the practice of press checking a magazine before use or storage has remained part of my own personal sop.
 
I never had a problem with 30 rounds until I had some training. The very night before that, I was posting how I never had a problem with 30 rounds. The very next day, the mag fell out. My instructor just shook his head, and said that's why 28. It took me many tries to get it toseat, and that's when I pounded the bottom of it, and that's when I got that warning too. After that, all my mags get 28, even if they work with 30. 2 rounds isn't worth my life. But as always, do what works best for you.
 
okay, so i think we all get why some people download their mags and why some don't although i still think that some do it because they "heard" and not because they DID.

what i don't understand is why folks download to 27 or 28 instead of 29. several posters has asked the question but no one has answered. can someone please explain this seemingly illogical practice?
 
To me; 28 for sure? and 30 maybe is a no brainer. It is always better to stress your equipment below its design limits unless there is a compelling reason to fully exercise it.
 
What I heard, is that even numbers, keep the round on the same side of the mag. Something to do with the rifle chambering that first round from the same side, as 30 rounds. Now to me, that doesn't make sense, because the very next round that gets chambered, is from the odd side of the mag.
 
Why even number of rounds?

Because a fully loaded mag has an even number of rounds and the top round is always on the same side. Loading an even number when you down-load keeps the top round on the same side as a correctly loaded mag. This isn't for the benefit of the weapon, but the user. Drop the mag and look at it, it will tell you if you've chambered a round. That's the theory but I don't subscribe to it. If you want to verify a loaded chamber, check the chamber.
 
That makes sense, and when my Dad was lucky enough to have a friend take him out with the local SWAT guys to play with a MP5 they said they do the same so they can tell if they are grabbing a fully loaded mag by feel. But if you loaded all your mags the same, like to an odd number, wouldn't it accomplish the same thing? I guess logistically if you are swapping mags with other buddies in combat it would help to have everyone using the same system.
I find 29 works in my rifle on a closed bolt so that's what I use
I'd download to 28 to be like the "operators" but i'm not that tacticool when i assault paper targets :D
 
Never underestimate the paper targets...NEVER!!:D



That does make sense 1911, and it makes even more sense to visually verify, the round in the chamber.
 
For my "bumps in the night" I only keep 25 to each mag, and just keep 3 mags always loaded and handy. For War and Training, I roll with 27, it doesn't put as much stress on the mag spring, which constantly need to be given a cleaning and a bit of spring strech every so often.

That's just my $0.02, I also have 16 issued USGI mags and another 20 or so that have been aquired over the years and have always carried a double combat load of green tip + a cocktail of tracers and other rounds into combat.
 
Hey Chopinbloc,

Since you've already got the ordnance tape, put a knot at each end of a 6" length of riser cord. Put this on the bottom of your mags, held in place with ordie tape. Cheap mag-pulls! Shh! Don't tell the guys who sell the 20 dollar gadgets I told you.

For cleaning mags, a cheap and hassle free way to do it is lighter fluid. The naptha rinses all the gunk away and dries with no film. Actually, I clean hard to get areas on firearms this way, too.

For the "cocktail" mags, don't make the last one a tracer. You want something behind a tracer to help blow out the gunk that will ruin even a chromed barrel if left too long.
 
1911 guy,

i used to run that type of setup but i stopped 'cause i felt like i didn't need it. kept the tape to keep things quiet, though. remember murphy's rules of armed combat? "don't draw fire, it makes your squad mates angry.";)

so we've heard some theories on why folks go down to 28 or even 27 but we haven't heard anyone who actually does it explain why they go down that far when they could simply download by one.
 
jeez...

I know that none of my 13 AR15s will readily accept a fully loaded magazine every single time.
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Why don't you just lock the bolt to the rear BEFORE yonu insert the mag? If you do this, you will NEVER have a problem geting the mag into the weapon.

There is no need to download your mags...unless it just makes you feel better.

I also had an old timer tell me one time that we were going to chamber a fresh round before we left the patrol base in the morning. This of course would be in case condensation got into the ammo during the night. The only this is, military ammo is sealed and water tight to 300 ft sea water. This didn't phase the old timer...we were gonna charge a fresh round into the chamber before we left the PB!
 
"Why don't you just lock the bolt to the rear BEFORE yonu insert the mag?"

Very simple. You can't always choose exactly what course of events is going to develop, therefore you must try to be as prepared as you can for whatever might happen.

If you always shoot your AR15 on a shooting range where you can decide every move you are going to make then sure, lock the bolt back. Load as many rounds as you want. The paper target is definitely going to be there when you get everything just so. Maybe you have no interest at all in defensive type training with AR15s.
Certainly, do whatever makes you happy. Follow your own experience.

In the defensive type shooting sports and defensive type training, there is a concept called the "tactical reload". This is a very common and widely practiced drill. I have never been in any kind of combat but it seems logical that being able to perform a tactical reload smoothly and efficently would be of great value. I have participated in numerous shooting sports and drills that require you to do a tactical reload while on the clock: so, successfully passing that phase of a class or scoring high in a match demands that you can do a quick and efficent tactical reload.
The concept of the tactical reload is that you have fired your weapon. The threat has gone away for the moment (the enemy is down and out of the fight, the enemy has left the area, whatever). You are now holding a weapon with an unknown number of rounds in it. You don't know what the future holds. More bad guys may materialize in the next instant; you simply don't know. Ideally, you want the weapon loaded to it's full capacity because you don't know what might happen in the future so you want to be as prepared as you can be. So, during this lull in the gunfight, you quickly and efficently remove the partially depleted magazine and insert a fully loaded magazine. It is also highly desireable to retain the partially depleted magazine if you can but that is another subject. You want to spend as little time as possible with the magazine out of the gun and as much time as possible with a fully loaded rifle, ready to go. That is a tactical reload. If your rifle won't accept the magazine you just tryed to insert, now you have to do something about it. You could try to pound on it, you could cycle the action and lock back the bolt: OR YOU COULD JUST LOAD YOUR MAGAZINES WITH 28 ROUNDS AND NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM AT ALL. Why ? Because anything other than smooth and efficent is not good. What if you come under attack again while you are screwing around with the magazine because you absolutely insisted that you were going to put 30 rounds in it ? What if you came under attack and didn't even know it because your focus was on your rifle and magazine ? What if you were simply involved in a shooting game where you are being timed for the senario and the senario requires you to do a tactical reload ? Instead of quickly finishing the stage or match you are wasting valuable time screwing around with doing a reload because you just couldn't possibly live with the idea of downloading your magazines by two rounds ?
Certainly, your milage may vary.
But, for the life of me, I can't understand why this is such a big issue. I can't imagine why people who appearently don't really care about making quick reloads are so concerned with having the rifle hold those two more rounds. It seems as if some people are willing to do anything in order to have those two rounds. They will debate endlessly about those two rounds. Those two rounds are of paramount importance..................but, quickly and efficently charging the rifle with a fresh 28 more new rounds isn't even on their radar screen.
 
The reason I download both 20 and 30 round magazines is it makes insertion under a closed bolt more reliable. It is also easier on the mag spring.

With 9 rounds on a stripper instead of 10 it takes 2 strippers to load a 20 rd. mag(18 rounds). Use 3 strippers to load a 30 rd. mag and you end up with 27 rounds.

I load all my strippers at my leisure so that should I have to recharge a mag in a hurry under stressful conditions I will always have the same results whether loading a 20 or 30 round mag.

It works well for me, if you really believe that those extra 2 or 3 rounds are critical, that's your choice. Have at it.
 
Just get HK mags and never look back. Expensive but well worth it. 100% reliable and easy to fully load IMO. And buttery smooth and built like tanks.
 
Just get HK mags and never look back. Expensive but well worth it. 100% reliable and easy to fully load IMO. And buttery smooth and built like tanks
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Be advised that according to credible sources, most, if not in fact all, of the HK mags bought by the Marine Corps have started cracking along the spine, beginning at the top. HK's response was that they should have bought two sets of mags (training mags and duty mags) rather than using the same mags for all purposes.
 
Be advised that according to credible sources, most, if not in fact all, of the HK mags bought by the Marine Corps have started cracking along the spine, beginning at the top. HK's response was that they should have bought two sets of mags (training mags and duty mags) rather than using the same mags for all purposes.
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No kidding? I am surprised. They look solid as rocks and certainly appear more heavy duty than any of my other magazines.
 
I was shocked as well. I'd heard about problems with dropping them and the baseplates having issues, but the Magpuls were an easy solution to that.
 
You want to spend as little time as possible with the magazine out of the gun and as much time as possible with a fully loaded rifle, ready to go. That is a tactical reload. If your rifle won't accept the magazine you just tryed to insert, now you have to do something about it. You could try to pound on it, you could cycle the action and lock back the bolt: OR YOU COULD JUST LOAD YOUR MAGAZINES WITH 28 ROUNDS AND NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM AT ALL.
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I get it, and have "gotten it" for years.

But once again: Why 28 and not 29?:banghead: :banghead:

One of the .30 Carbine 15-rounders I tried out Saturday will take 16. However, it failed the "press-check" and I will still treat it as a 15-rounder. Since they were ALL part of a no bolt-lock on last round system those 15-rounders will ALL lock securely and reliably under a closed bolt.:neener:
 
Like someone said earlier, if 27 rds. of ammo doesn't resolve the situation it's doubtful an extra 2 or 3 rds. will.
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Coming from a crowd that wants the fastest possible tac reloads, I think this is a specious and disingeneous and flippant answer.

Although I believe, in general, that firing all 30 rounds *may* mean that you have completely squandered your opportunity for retreat, I also recognize that retreat is not always a safe or realistic option. Where do you draw the line? So, if in your experience 20-round mags are more reliable, those "other" 10 or 9 or 8 rounds from using a 30-rounder don't matter, either, do they?
 
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