M1A malf

[bofe954]

I started having a malfunction with my M1A today at the range.

It first started when I chambered a round a got a click instead of a bang. I figured I didn't seat my magazine correctly and the bolt just hadn't stripped a round from the magazine.

I pulled the bolt back and there was a round in the chamber, it just had not seated itself under the extractor. The extractor was holding the bolt back slightly so the firing pin could not hit the primer.

I removed the magazine and worked the bolt with the round chambered. I then replaced the magazine and the rifle fired and fed the next rounds OK. I ran a 20 round mag through the rifle no problem.

I then moved to a 200yd range. Then I had the same problem. There were a few other shooters around and I didn't feel like fiddling at the range so I went home. I stripped the rifle cleaned the chamber and barrel and cleaned the front of the bolt and under the extractor. Not real dirty. Then I added a mag and tried to chamber a round and got this-(pic)

It seems like either the bolt is getting slowed down enough to not seat the cartridge under the extractor (or just stopped like in the pic). I tried 2 mags, both do it, neither did before. I bought the rifle used but I have had a few hundred round through it with no issues.

With the bolt out and I can seat a cartridge under the extractor.

Any common answers? Could the mag feed lips just be hitting the bolt? I tried to look for this but did not see it. With an empty mag it's hard to see if there is interference due to the bolt hold open. Any advice?

 

[1911Ron]

Do the mag lips show any rub marks (shiney) are the mag lips bent?
it to me looks like a feeding (mag issue) are the mags being pushed in to far or not being seated correctly?

 

[cuervo]

I would disassemble the bolt and check the extractor and spring. Maybe the spring is bad or something has really gotten down in there. Not a hard thing to do if you have some type of a bolt tool to put it back together. Do it in a closed space with glasses on to avoid losing a spring and/or an eye.

 

[bofe954]

Cuervo, I don't have a bolt tool. I'll look into one though. The M1A is from the 80's and although it may have been done sometime, a spring kit wouldn't be out of the question.

There are some shiny spots on the mags. I have a few more mags and can try those. As far as seating- the mags are seated, I am not sure how I could be seating them wrong. I seated a mag with the bolt pulled back and looked at how it was engaging with the rifle and it looked correct. I tried to pull the mag down away from the rifle and it would budge. Maybe the feed lips just need to be tapped down a hair.

 

[bofe954]

I'll have to check my other mag. I removed the baseplate and spring and put the mag in. Didn't seem to be rubbing. I can still induce the failure.

 

[bofe954]

Can I use the combo tool somehow to break down the bolt?

The bolt disassembly tools are anywhere from 50-$80.

 

[The Guy]

Yes you can. By depressing the ejector with the tip, then rolling it up to pop the extractor up. Be very carefull releasing the ejector.

One thing to check before bolt diss. Remove the stock and check to see if the failure goes away. If the front sling swivel is retained with screws or bolts, the ends can be just long enough to rub the bottom of the oprod to slow it down and cause the bolt not to seat fully forward. You will also want to be sure that the op-rod and guide are properly greased, and that the spring and spring guide are alright.

When the extractor in my M1 carbine broke, it would work like what you discribed also. I had to replace the extractor, extractor spring and pin to fix.

 

[spartacus2002]

First things I would check:
1. how old is the operating rod spring -- is it time to replace it?
2. Is the rifle properly lubricated? By that I mean with grease, not oil, on the bolt lug, bolt roller, operating rod track, and operating rod guide.
3. Having addressed those two (which can be responsible for the vast majority of failures to feed), I'd next check the magazine. M1As are finicky when it comes to non-USGI mags. If it is not a USGI mag, use a known USGI mag and see if the problem recurs.
4. Next, clean the chamber thoroughly with an oiled chamber brush, then use an old chamber brush with a patch on it to get the dirt/oil out.
5. Next, check the extractor spring and plunger to ensure they are putting proper pressure on the extractor.

You can use the combo tool to disassemble the bolt when it is out of the rifle, but it is a BEAR to put back together -- unless you have a spent 30-06 shell. To reassemble the bolt the easy way, put the rifle back together minus the extractor, pull bolt back, put spent 30-06 shell in chamber, make sure firing pin hasn't fallen out and ejector is still aligned, then push bolt forward onto 30-06 shell and voila! It pushes the ejector in enough for you to pop the extractor back in with minimal pressure.

 

[bofe954]

The Guy- I bucked up and ordered the bolt tool. I like the rifle, my brother is talking about picking one up, I might as well have it.

I also ordered a spring set. It was well greased. Nothing appears to be broken. I'll see what happens when I get the bolt apart.

I would blame the mags too, but I have several that all worked, now none of them do. The extractor looks OK from the outside but maybe something is broke inside. I should have just ordered some bolt parts with the spring kit and replaced them in the name of maintenance.

When does the extractor normally "grab" the cartridge? Is the cartridge already in teh chamber and then the bolt closes on the cartridge and seats it under teh extractor, or is it sooner?

 

[cuervo]

If you have an M14 combo tool, you have a bolt tool.

In this image, the right side of the tool is used to press the ejector in so that you can reassemble the extractor, which holds everything together.

The bolt can be taken apart with a flat screwdriver blade by carefully prying the extractor out and keeping a hand over the ejector so that it doesn't eject itself out into space.

Having a true bolt tool is nice, but not completely necessary.

 

[The Guy]

Ok, I got mine out to see. The round is not held by the extractor untill the bolt is closed over the chamber. By hand resistant feeding anyway. By slowing down the bolt by hand I can recreate your mal. How much have you shot this rifle? Am i correct that this happens on the first round only, after a fresh mag is inserted? If so, and you haven't been shooting the rifle long, you maybe trying to "controll" the bolt/op-rod assembly, inducing a slowing motion by running the rod by hand all the way down. Try just pulling back and letting it rip. This could also happen if you had a one time only malf., then you started running the op-rod by hand to see if it happens again, causing it occur inadvertantly.

A spring kit is a good idea, as the rifle is from the mid 80's.

Mags. What manufacturer are they? If the orgin/age of your mags is unknown, you may want to get some new ones anyway. CMI mags are great, USGI. www.44mag.com. He has rebuild kits there too. I just recived some new CMI mags from there, and they worked great.

Fulton Armory has a great assembly guide for your rifle, by Walt (?) and Clint McKee. Lots of info, worth every penny.

If my top assumption is incorrect, let me know. Check all the things Sparticus mentioned too.

Good Luck

 

[bofe954]

I have the McKee book. I was just hoping for the "yeah, that happened to me and it was ..." response that you get sometimes.

I believe all my mags are GI and they have worked in the past. I ordered the spring kit from Fulton and the bolt tool from West Texas Armory (it looked real similar to Fulton's and was $20 cheaper).

I figure I'll replace all the springs, clean, regrease and give it another go. While the bolt is apart I'll be able to see if anything is awry in there. Probably be a week or so. I'll pull this post back up after I try that. I think it could easily just be the op rod spring, but I don't think I can go wrong replacing all springs.

 

[30Cal]

If they're GI mags, then assume they're fine. You're problem is more likely rifle or ammo related.

You did not mention what type of ammo you're shooting.

Does it pass the tilt test? Remove the oprod and tip the rifle up and down 45º. The oprod and bolt should cycle fully on their own under gravity.

Ty

 

[bofe954]

I am ashamed to bring u the ammo, it is the pakistani mil surp.

I can also induce the failure with australian, and I have fired both before with no trouble. Probably a hundred rounds of the Paki before this trouble.

I will try the op rod test.

 

[bofe954]

I pulled the op rod spring and the rifle passes the tilt test. It has a sadlack spring guide and passes the test even with the guide in place.

 

[ATAShooter]

I bought a Springfield M1A brand slam new in box from dealer. From day 1 I had Failure of bolt fully closing, failure to extract.... On M14 forums a guy talked me into putting a GI extractor, plunger and spring. I did not understand this seeing the rifle was brand new. It made all the difference, now it eats everything flawlessly.

 

[bofe954]

I'll have a new plunger and spring soon. If it isn't fixed I will probably get a new extractor. Fulton says to call for one, you can't just add it to the cart so I may get one just in case even if it does start working. I am pretty sure the spring kit will cure me though.

 

[Chris Orndorff]

My SA M1A developed some "issues" (fail-to extract), and I went through many of the suggestions posted so far in this thread. I ended up sending the rifle back to SA and they replaced the entire bolt. It's run 100% since then.