M1A or AR-10 ?

[agtman]

* * * I just bought a LMT MWS, and on my first outing, it performed just as well as my M1A...but with regular old PMC Bronze 147gr garbage and Federal Powershock 150gr JSPs. It might be premature to declare the MWS the winner at this point, but I have no doubts that it will absolutely spank the M1A as I continue to test different loads through the rifle.

I'd recommend buying the M1A if you seek some nostalgia from the rifle. If making small groups is what you seek, buy an accuracy-oriented AR10 (leave the lightweight barrels on the shelf). * * * Honestly, I'm already considering ditching the M1A entirely.

Well, I'm not ready to sell my late-80s SA M1A Super Match that Glenn Nelson built, nor my early '90s SA M1AE2, but otherwise I agree with Boricua9mm.

While today's M1A are great for the nostalgia and "retro" feel, and are without a doubt fun to shoot and compete with in CMP events, for accuracy and ergonomics the AR-10 platform is superior. But just which AR-10 model to get isn't an easy decision.

After studying the specifications of the makes/models available from the various manufacturers, and then researching any user-reported problems among theses models on a number of the gun forums, I finally went with LMT's 7.62 LM8. The LM8 is the slightly lighter-weight, "slickside" variant of Boricua9mm's MWS (the LM8's foreend is rail-less at 3, 6, & 9 o'clock). Got mine with both the 16" C/L tube and the 18" SS SPR barrel.

Put about 400rds thru the 16" and about 250rd of match ammo thru the 18". Then took the LM8 to a precision course where I shot about another 300rds of match ammo thru the 18".

Shooting typical .308 commercial fodder (e.g., PMC), both set-ups are more accurate than my standard M1A (but only slightly better if the ammo's some brand of crappy 7.62 mil-surplus). With the 18" SS tube installed, the LM8 will shoot sub-MOA with match ammo (FGGM) just as well as will the Nelson SM, but is lighter to hump, ergonomically superior (as set up for me), and is unquestionably easier to scope.

 

[itsa pain]

I will admit that I did not put a lot of effort into making my MP-10 work for me, my dad-in-law wanted it badly. If I'd had it longer, I'd have improved the trigger, obtained good ammo, and mounted better optics.

I am not sure anymore about free-floating handguards and just how much they contribute, but I'd have tried that too.

OK, so for $2k what's my AR-10 consist of for optimizing accuracy?

I do not believe floating handguards are worth the effort. The most bolt gun accurate AR I ever saw was a Colt H-Bar 1x7 twist I had no floating handguards

 

[socalbeachbum]

thank you all. seems like the AR-10 platform will better suit me.

 

[Reloadron]

thank you all. seems like the AR-10 platform will better suit me.

See, what this all comes down to and what it will always come down to is what suits the buyer. I figure toss some data out there and ultimately let the buyer decide what they want. What I may prefer is really of no consequence anymore than the fact that I have class and good taste and the buyer may not really doesn't matter. Just kidding on that last. If I suggest the buyer get an AR-10 because the M1A sucks and they get an AR-10 how would I feel if they disliked the AR-10? I would feel terrible, maybe lay awake at night devastated I led some poor soul down the wrong path.

Seriously it is ultimately the buyer who must be happy with their decision and buying what trips their trigger. Everyone else can only make suggestions as to what they like and why providing sound and accurate data. That is as good as it gets.

Now go get that rifle and enjoy it!

Just My Take
Ron

 

[Nom de Forum]

See, what this all comes down to and what it will always come down to is what suits the buyer. I figure toss some data out there and ultimately let the buyer decide what they want. What I may prefer is really of no consequence anymore than the fact that I have class and good taste and the buyer may not really doesn't matter. Just kidding on that last. If I suggest the buyer get an AR-10 because the M1A sucks and they get an AR-10 how would I feel if they disliked the AR-10? I would feel terrible, maybe lay awake at night devastated I led some poor soul down the wrong path.

Seriously it is ultimately the buyer who must be happy with their decision and buying what trips their trigger. Everyone else can only make suggestions as to what they like and why providing sound and accurate data. That is as good as it gets.

Now go get that rifle and enjoy it!

Just My Take
Ron

Gee Ron, that post is so sweet and thoughtful I was getting teary-eyed just reading it. I agree 100% with you.

 

[melbr00ks]

I didn't see any votes for "all of the above", but sounds like some of you guys would qualify there.

 

[Reloadron]

I didn't see any votes for "all of the above", but sounds like some of you guys would qualify there.

I do have both and have had them for a long, long time. I also enjoy shooting both rifles. So yeah, if over time the original poster wants to add one or the other that's cool. Long as it is what they want. My poor AR10 hasn't been shot in a few years but the M1A has been out a few times this summer. If it would quit raining I want to get more shooting on the M1A.

Ron

 

[4v50 Gary]

AR-10. Lower maintenance and higher potential for accuracy. No gas piston, no op rod slopping about and no bedding to wear out.

 

[Reloadron]

Gee Ron, that post is so sweet and thoughtful I was getting teary-eyed just reading it. I agree 100% with you.

Thanks and I try....

Ron

 

[Robbins290]

I got the m1a, i love it. But you cant do alot with it. Getting a ar10 soon

 

[Reloadron]

I got the m1a, i love it. But you cant do alot with it. Getting a ar10 soon

Curiosity begs me to ask. What can I do with my AR10 that I can't do with my M1A?





They can both hunt hogs or whitetail deer about the same, not that it matters as I have better suited rifles for hunting. They both shoot the same boolits. They are both gas operated magazine fed shoulder weapons. They do look a little different though.

Ron

 

[Nom de Forum]

Curiosity begs me to ask. What can I do with my AR10 that I can't do with my M1A?

Ron

Spend more time doing other things than servicing you M1A so it maintains the accuracy of the AR10? Save money by needing less expensive tools to service the AR10? Get rid of that nagging thought that the flash suppressor design on the M14/M1A is some kind of inside joke the designer perpetrated that you are not in on?

The M21s I worked on were frequently in need of re-bedding. Granted this was due to use/abuse most target shooter's and hunter's rifles will never be subjected to.

 

[Reloadron]

Spend more time doing other things than servicing you M1A so it maintains the accuracy of the AR10? Save money by needing less expensive tools to service the AR10? Get rid of that nagging thought that the flash suppressor design on the M14/M1A is some kind of inside joke the designer perpetrated that you are not in on?

The M21s I worked on were frequently in need of re-bedding. Granted this was due to use/abuse most target shooter's and hunter's rifles will never be subjected to.

I did see your earlier comments regarding maintenance of the M1A. I trained with the M14 in the Marine Corps and we shot the heck out of the things. We literally beat the hell out of those rifles and they functioned fine. My M1A is about a now 20 year old SA NM version, mostly GI parts. Not being an avid round counter I haven't a clue how many rounds have gone down range. The rifle still consistently shoots well and I can't recall any parts I needed to replace. The rifles served well in Vietnam under combat and adverse conditions also.

As to bedding or the need to bed. I have a few oversize M14 NM stocks and I had planned to bed my rifle in one of them. The rifle shoots more than well enough so I figured maybe someday but have yet seen a need to bed the thing to improve accuracy. I do have a few Garands I have bedded so I am not concerned with the ability to bed the thing. Still have all my tools from Brownells but just figure when something works and works well why screw with it? Bedding a Garand? Yes. However, bedding a great shooting M1A? Nope, not yet anyway.

Don't misunderstand me. That AR10 I posted is not a slouch rifle. If you noticed it, like my M1A does not have a scope but match sights. It is also a tack driving rifle which I truly enjoy and I have had that rifle about as long as the M1A, maybe a few years newer.

The M21s I worked on were frequently in need of re-bedding. Granted this was due to use/abuse most target shooter's and hunter's rifles will never be subjected to.

A correctly bedded rifle should run thousands or rounds before rebedding is even required unless as you mention the rifle is abused and that would be a sin. You do not even reach for or grab a bedded rifle the wrong way. The M21 is the spawn of the M14. Take a NM or high target grade M14, add a scope and feed it really good match grade ammunition. One hell of a sweet rifle.

Anyway, I can appreciate your views. I have both as pictured and like both. My AR10 at base is the more costly as is of the two.

Ron

 

[MistWolf]

I have an M14 and a 308 AR in the form of an M&P-10. I don't have to worry about the fine accuracy of the M&P-10 degrading as the shot count rises as much as I do with the M14 and the M&P-10 has fewer things to affect that fine accuracy. I don't care. I love both rifles and one won't replace the other.

But if a shooter is looking for an Easy Button for tuning for accuracy, mounting optics and lower maintenance, it's the 308 AR.

If a shooter will be satisfied with 2 moa right out of the box with no tuning and is happy with iron sights, the M14 is a good choice. But if the shooter wants to tune the rifle for under 1 moa performance and isn't willing to perform the upkeep an M14 needs to keep that kind of accuracy, they are better off with an AR

 

[Reloadron]

I have an M14 and a 308 AR in the form of an M&P-10. I don't have to worry about the fine accuracy of the M&P-10 degrading as the shot count rises as much as I do with the M14 and the M&P-10 has fewer things to affect that fine accuracy. I don't care. I love both rifles and one won't replace the other.

But if a shooter is looking for an Easy Button for tuning for accuracy, mounting optics and lower maintenance, it's the 308 AR.

If a shooter will be satisfied with 2 moa right out of the box with no tuning and is happy with iron sights, the M14 is a good choice. But if the shooter wants to tune the rifle for under 1 moa performance and isn't willing to perform the upkeep an M14 needs to keep that kind of accuracy, they are better off with an AR

I do believe that sums it up.

Ron

 

[HexHead]

Ignore the advice of anyone that hasn't had both platforms.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I did see your earlier comments regarding maintenance of the M1A. I trained with the M14 in the Marine Corps and we shot the heck out of the things. We literally beat the hell out of those rifles and they functioned fine. My M1A is about a now 20 year old SA NM version, mostly GI parts. Not being an avid round counter I haven't a clue how many rounds have gone down range. The rifle still consistently shoots well and I can't recall any parts I needed to replace. The rifles served well in Vietnam under combat and adverse conditions also.

As to bedding or the need to bed. I have a few oversize M14 NM stocks and I had planned to bed my rifle in one of them. The rifle shoots more than well enough so I figured maybe someday but have yet seen a need to bed the thing to improve accuracy. I do have a few Garands I have bedded so I am not concerned with the ability to bed the thing. Still have all my tools from Brownells but just figure when something works and works well why screw with it? Bedding a Garand? Yes. However, bedding a great shooting M1A? Nope, not yet anyway.

Don't misunderstand me. That AR10 I posted is not a slouch rifle. If you noticed it, like my M1A does not have a scope but match sights. It is also a tack driving rifle which I truly enjoy and I have had that rifle about as long as the M1A, maybe a few years newer.



A correctly bedded rifle should run thousands or rounds before rebedding is even required unless as you mention the rifle is abused and that would be a sin. You do not even reach for or grab a bedded rifle the wrong way. The M21 is the spawn of the M14. Take a NM or high target grade M14, add a scope and feed it really good match grade ammunition. One hell of a sweet rifle.

Anyway, I can appreciate your views. I have both as pictured and like both. My AR10 at base is the more costly as is of the two.

Ron

There was alotta sinning in the United States Army in the 1980's and bedded rifles (M21s and Customized Rem 700s) were not just reached for and grabbed the wrong way they were groped and mauled on occasion. There needs to be a clear distinction between maintaining the accuracy of an M14 and a highly modified for accuracy M14 when subject to hard use.

 

[agtman]

There was alotta sinning in the United States Army in the 1980's and bedded rifles (M21s and Customized Rem 700s) were not just reached for and grabbed the wrong way they were groped and mauled on occasion. There needs to be a clear distinction between maintaining the accuracy of an M14 and a highly modified for accuracy M14 when subject to hard use

And it might be useful to distinguish between "highly modified for accuracy" M14s that were employed during the adverse, daily conditions of warfighting, and their NM or SM M1A equivalents that are employed only for match competitions and punching paper at distance. Different animals as well.

 

[Reloadron]

There was alotta sinning in the United States Army in the 1980's and bedded rifles (M21s and Customized Rem 700s) were not just reached for and grabbed the wrong way they were groped and mauled on occasion. There needs to be a clear distinction between maintaining the accuracy of an M14 and a highly modified for accuracy M14 when subject to hard use.

On no, now you made me cry. That said I can certainly understand your position on maintenance.

agtman:

And it might be useful to distinguish between "highly modified for accuracy" M14s that were employed during the adverse, daily conditions of warfighting, and their NM or SM M1A equivalents that are employed only for match competitions and punching paper at distance. Different animals as well.

I would like to believe that the average match shooter does not abuse a rifle he has a few grand plus invested in. The rifles I posted represent some of my hard earned bucks and I take good care of them as I do all my guns. Nom de Forum is looking at things from an Armourer's point of view where he saw rifles misused on a daily basis resulting in high maintenance.

So yes, I can agree. Now if it would just stop raining up here maybe I could get out and shoot those rifles. I know I can shoot in the rain but these days I am more a fair weather shooter.

Ron

 

[Nom de Forum]

On no, now you made me cry. That said I can certainly understand your position on maintenance.

agtman:


I would like to believe that the average match shooter does not abuse a rifle he has a few grand plus invested in. The rifles I posted represent some of my hard earned bucks and I take good care of them as I do all my guns. Nom de Forum is looking at things from an Armourer's point of view where he saw rifles misused on a daily basis resulting in high maintenance.

So yes, I can agree. Now if it would just stop raining up here maybe I could get out and shoot those rifles. I know I can shoot in the rain but these days I am more a fair weather shooter.

Ron

Ron and agtman I agree with you. With care an M14 type will hold up well but the AR will still have a maintenance and versatility advantage the M14 type can't match. Sure you can restock a M14 to put on all the gadgets an AR can sport but that is not what I mean. Making and maintaining both types of rifles is a labor of love, one just requires more loving than the other.

Ron you need to move to southern Arizona. Rain is so rare here, when it happens people actually stop what they are doing just to watch it.

 

[Reloadron]

Ron you need to move to southern Arizona. Rain is so rare here, when it happens people actually stop what they are doing just to watch it.

Don't get me started. My wife has a cousin in Phoenix area and spends a few weeks a year out there. I love Arizona and finally being retired the thoughts of getting out of NE Ohio is a constant (and very nice) thought. Open space to shoot plus a climate I always enjoyed. Heat = Good and Cold = Bad.

Ron