M1A vs. M1 Garand

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DavidABQ

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Albuquerque, NM
I have an itch to purchase M1A and was looking at them in the store the other day. I am interested in the Springfield Armory Loaded or National Match model.

My wife asks me why I wanted an M1A when I have a M1 at home. I pointed out that the National Match is an accurized version of the standard model.

She then asks, "why not just have your M1 accurized?"
To that I do not have a good answer. I do love shooting my CMP M1 so why not send it back to them and have their people do their magic on it.

Any pros and cons on accurizing my M1 Garands versus picking up a new M1A?
 
I have both rifles. I love both rifles. If you want either accurized to compete in National Match competition, you'd be better served with an AR. Unless you just want compete with a Garand or an M14.

If you wish to compete in John Garand class competitions, what can be done to your Garand is very limited.

Either way, get an M14. That way you'll have both. You can always get either or both accurized later.
 
I have both. Get both. The M1a is much easier to accurize than the M1 Garand. There are smiths who still do Garands but the platform of the M14 is more suited to it. And if you get a national match... it will all be done already.

My wife asks me why I wanted an M1A when I have a M1 at home.

Now that's just crazy talk. :D

If you want either accurized to compete in National Match competition, you'd be better served with an AR.
^^^this is wise
 
I had a Loaded, basically a single lug NM with a poly stock. The iron sight aperture was TINY and the front blade very thin, this combined with the somewhat unbalanced heavy SS barrel and great length made it a much better bench rifle than a "Designated Marksman" type weapon which is what I was looking for. Accuracy was just dandy out of the box and the Springfield NM trigger was silky smooth and crisp.

I did like it, but I wanted something a bit more shoot and scoot ready, so I'm looking at a Scout or SOCOM now.
Still, a very nice rifle which will do just fine out to 400 yards or so.
 
Thank you gentlemen. I don't know if I will ever compete in the National Match Service rifle but the John C. Garand Matches put on by CMP is a possibility.
I do love shooting my M1band I know this might be heresy but I do not like the AR platform. I didn't like shooting it in the Air Force and I have fired some of my friends since then and I still don't like it. Accurate? Very much so but I guess I am a Fudd with my wood stocked rifles.
I don't see an AR in my future. I like the M1/M1A platform so I think I will stick with that.

Thank you gentlemen.
 
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they handle and feel different. shooting cmp games you will notice the difference. Garand feels better in prone. the m1a better in off hand. just so you know most springfield amory civilian m1as have cast receivers...dc
 
I have both... sorta. I have a Garand rebuild, a FedOrd so it's nothing special, but it's fun to shoot and I like it. Getting to hold that piece of history in your hand and getting to shoot it is worth the price of admission right there; mine is an early '42 Springfield, so I wish it could tell stories, for sure.

I have an M1a... or, more correctly, a Socom16. It breaks the 'fun to shoot' meter pretty handily, and everyone I let shoot it has a more or less day-long grin on their face. It is certainly a different animal than my M1, and probably an M1a Standard, etc. A NM M1a is on The List, but it's pretty far down there. I don't ever expect to compete with one, so that's where the priority is... but that is not to say you shouldn't own one. ;)
 
Thank you gentlemen. I don't I will ever compete in the National Match Service rifle but the John C. Garand Matches put on by CMP is a possibility.
I do love shooting my M1band I know this might be heresy but I do not like the AR platform. I didn't like shooting it in the Air Force and I have fired some of my friends since then and I still don't like it. Accurate? Very much so but I guess I am a Fudd with my wood stocked rifles.
I don't see an AR in my future. I like the M1/M1A platform so I think I will stick with that.

Thank you gentlemen.
If you plan on shooting John C Garand matches then you should read up on what modifications are allowed before you go crazy on your M1. Most of the common accurizing things are not allowed. but there are some things you can do.

I'd do those for your M1 and get a supermatch if you want top level M14 platform accuracy.
 
I have an itch to purchase M1A and was looking at them in the store the other day. I am interested in the Springfield Armory Loaded or National Match model.

My wife asks me why I wanted an M1A when I have a M1 at home. I pointed out that the National Match is an accurized version of the standard model.

She then asks, "why not just have your M1 accurized?"
To that I do not have a good answer. I do love shooting my CMP M1 so why not send it back to them and have their people do their magic on it.

Any pros and cons on accurizing my M1 Garands versus picking up a new M1A?

This is a SuperMatch, rear lugged, heavy Douglas barrel (made by Barnett), all the match modifications. Wonderfully accurate rifle. I earned my Distinguished Rifleman's Badge with a M1a Supermatch.

IPz7SVK.jpg

This 30-06 NM Garand has a heavy Barnett barrel, 1:10 twist, and a PBR receiver. I had to have something different. .

R8S2eGJ.jpg

The M1 Garand can be turned into a very accurate rifle, you will need a match barrel, glass bedding, match rear sights if you want the hood and 1/2 MOA elevation and windage adjustments. One MOA E & Windage adjustments are too big for the NRA target. I am of the opinion the best cartridge for the Garand is the 30-06. The cartridge shoots very well:

fpJjDDC.jpg

I do have a 308 Win NM Garand, it tosses cases right in my fore head. If my cap brim is a little above the rear sight, and the cases manage to make it to the forehead, I have ended up going home with bloody circles and half circles on my fore head.

oJDHRXW.jpg

Garands tend to toss brass everywhere, you will be real popular with the shooters on the firing line next to you. One of the worst burns I got was in prone rapid fire. A hot, ejected 30-06 case went down between the shooting coat and neck, and burnt me as I shot my string. I flopped like a fish out of water between shots. When I finally got home, I had a nice 30-06 burn mark. If you look at vintage firing lines at Camp Perry, when the Garand was there, there are a lot of Campaign hats on the shooters. This is not a fashion statement. A bud of mine, who was there in the 60's, told me the first thing he did was run to Commercial row, (and I think he said P.J. O'Hare) and bought a Campaign hat. You needed it to protect yourself from the torrent of hot, rapid fire, 30-06 brass that fell from the heavens.

The M14 was a product improved M1 Garand. The operating rod is shorter and heavier and the gas system is not at the end of the barrel. The M14 has a roller bolt. This was found to be better in hot, wet conditions, where oil and grease washed off the bolt lug of the Garand. The trigger guard has a superior latching mechanism compared to the Garand. I don't have a picture loaded of either, but the Garand trigger bow latching lugs deform. The "fingers" of a M14 latching trigger bow won't deform. Look at pictures, you can see what I mean.

wq6OO1r.jpg

A glassbedded, unitized gas cylinder, M1a will hold its "tune" longer than a M1 Garand. I refreshed the bedding at every barrel replacement, but that was about it. And that was about it for most shooters. Shoot any rifle enough and things break, extractors, firing pins, etc. GI gas systems lasted a long time. The Marine Team shooters told me of the roller coming off, there were some other funnies, that you won't see unless you are shooting 5000 rounds a month. The GI flash suppressor will need to be reamed so the bullet won't hit it on the way out. If you want an accurate M1a, get one with a medium or heavy match barrel. The GI contour barrel is too thin. The GI stock is too light. A nice medium or heavy stock is just the ticket for an accurate M1a. The Garand stock is fine as is. Both rifles have to be bedded in the stock or they won't shoot straight.

I had an "All GI" M1a version built, then asked the gun smith to perform all the match modifications. The barrel was better than expected, but the combination of the thin GI stock and the thin GI barrel, created a schizophrenic relationship between sling tension and point of impact.

ph9YkEZ.jpg

That magazine was my standing and two round rapid fire magazine. I wore the finish off on the front and sides, where you press on the thing, off hand, and jamming it into the magazine well.

Ga4R4LK.jpg

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hf2wPrU.jpg

You will have to replace the GI barrel on any Garand to have an accurate shooting rifle. That adds cost. I recommend a 1:10 twist, that shot well with all bullets up to 175 SMK's. The M1 Garand takes more work to keep it shooting straight. The M1 Garand operating rod will bend in time, touching the upper ferrule, and causing all sorts or weird flyers. If you study Kunhausen's book, you can figure out how to rebend the thing so it tracks true. The GI operating rod is not "straight". The upper handguard has to be glued to the upper ferrule and you have to be wary of everyone to prevent the curious from grabbing your rifle by the upper handguard. As mentioned, the trigger bow has lugs that deform. I had the gas cylinder get loose on its splines, even after peening the splines. I re peened the things and epoxy glued the gas cylinder to the barrel. That gas cylinder, at the end of the barrel, with that long operating rod, is the primary source of inaccuracy with the Garand design. There used to be lore about "live" operating rods, versus "dead", which was all about whether the operating rod button touched the top or bottom of the gas cylinder.

I know I lost a thumb nail with a Garand, might have done so with a M1a. I hope I have learned about getting my thumb out of there when pressing down on a cartridge or the follower.

If you want to NM your Garand for a lark, go ahead. The resale value of the rifle will be less than if you had left it alone. Bubba does not understand and is suspicious of anything that is not "Mil Spec".
 
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Buy the M1a, and box it and the Garand up for Christmas with you wife's name on the M1a. I'd go with that since it's not a re-gift as the Garand would be. I would suggest to also gift her with an expensive piece or jewelry---maybe even put it in the box with the rifle.

Then all you have to do is tell your wife that she can borrow yours any time she wants---if she will also share hers. Problem solved--no need to thank me.:D:evil:
 
IMO, you have to truly be attached to the Garand, and 30.06, to get them sent back and worked over.
But if you're large, like me, and you like all things 30.06, then maybe you should send the Garand in.
It's almost like a sickness, the ammo costs more, there's more recoil, the rifle's bigger and heavier.
Go with the M1A. Really...
 
Thank you everyone. After some thought a M1a is on my Christmas list.

I know of Fulton armory and Springfield Armory, who else produces M1As'?
 
I have an itch to purchase M1A and was looking at them in the store the other day. I am interested in the Springfield Armory Loaded or National Match model.

My wife asks me why I wanted an M1A when I have a M1 at home. I pointed out that the National Match is an accurized version of the standard model.

She then asks, "why not just have your M1 accurized?"
To that I do not have a good answer. I do love shooting my CMP M1 so why not send it back to them and have their people do their magic on it.

Any pros and cons on accurizing my M1 Garands versus picking up a new M1A?


The pros and cons of accurizing your M1 Garands vs picking up a new M1A is irrelevant.
The real problem is that your wife knows too much about guns. She easily picked up on the clever verbal sleight of hand about the M1A model being NM and suggesting that you simply accurize your Garand. Tsk tsk tsk.
 
I have an itch to purchase M1A and was looking at them in the store the other day. I am interested in the Springfield Armory Loaded or National Match model.

My wife asks me why I wanted an M1A when I have a M1 at home. I pointed out that the National Match is an accurized version of the standard model.

She then asks, "why not just have your M1 accurized?"
To that I do not have a good answer. I do love shooting my CMP M1 so why not send it back to them and have their people do their magic on it.

Any pros and cons on accurizing my M1 Garands versus picking up a new M1A?

This doesn't specify a match tool requirement.

So, for just shooting and hitting, from field positions?

Milspec is 4 MOA.

My M1's, though with great Bbl. numbers (Thank You, CMP) all shoot < 3 MOA.

That's a 12" gong at 400 yards.

Ammo - better than a new set of clubs.




GR
 
This doesn't specify a match tool requirement.

So, for just shooting and hitting, from field positions?

Milspec is 4 MOA.

My M1's, though with great Bbl. numbers (Thank You, CMP) all shoot < 3 MOA.

That's a 12" gong at 400 yards.

Ammo - better than a new set of clubs.




GR
I am looking to bang away at steel plates and shoot in our local service rifle matches.
 
i own and shoot a 1983 M1A (NM front-rear sights only mod) and a stock lead rebuilt M1 that I load for and when i go to the range and shoot the 500 yard steel gongs, other shooters come over to watch and ask if they can shoot a few rounds. after shooting them I love to see the grin on their faces. I keep them as they were issued,except for the sights on the M1A. I also shoot a rem 03A3 set up as a target rifle, good receiver sight and globe front sight and it is a ex shooter.
 
Accurize the Garand. It's the classy thing to do, and you end up with a higher quality rifle.

I have an M1A Loaded. I loved the thing until I got to about 1200 rounds and it developed about 6 to 8 MOA of vertical stringing. Normally I could keep ten rounds in a group the size of a baseball or a clenched fist, slung up with iron sights, prone, with basic WWB 147 gr FMJBT, but over the course of a hundred rounds or so it opened up to a long string about a foot in length--something clearly wrong. Discovered gas system was really loose. Sent it into Springfield. They were cordial and professional. Offered to fix it for free or install unitized system for the cost of components. I went with the unitized system. Got it back shortly thereafter and went to some family property with a range to sight it in. I was ecstatic to have my girl back--I got this rifle from money I got from my mom's life insurance when she passed. It is named after her, so it has value beyond its function. I truly love this rifle. I got about a half dozen rounds through it, still Plain Jane WWB 147 gr FMJBT, and it starts failing to extract. I work it as a single shot, manually cycling bolt after each shot, growing ever more perterbed for another six rounds. I can feel something is wrong when I cycle so I field strip to diagnose. As I pull the operating rod off the receiver, the bolt roller falls off. So I do some research and discover this thing call Springfield Bolt Roller Impact Defect. Say that ten times really fast. Anyways, turns out a small percentage of Springfield's M1As have a receiver that is far enough out of spec in external dimensions that the bolt roller impacts the receiver on either or both ends of the bolt's travel, causing it to eventually break. Springfield has good customer service normally, but doesn't acknowledge or service this. The fix is pretty straightforward, but it is the thought that counts to me. Though they are the most economical and available way to get into the M14-game, they aren't exactly cheap. Having to Dremel a $1500 rifle sucks. I'll eventually get around to getting a complete mil-spec bolt and fixing the receiver. I'll have it Ceracoated then as well. But that is a ways in the future. I can't justify spending the money on the rifle on my budget right now so it sits and collects dust. But it is more than that. Springfield's politics have been shaky lately. As good ol Uncle Benny said, "we must all hang together or we will surely hang separately." I have no support, financial or otherwise, for those who would betray their industry for personal gain.

Fulton makes a decent cast receiver rifle for not much more than the Springfield. You can still find a Chinese Polytech and these are decent mostly GI spec milled receiver rifles. There are smiths out there who offer packages to check heat treat and convert it from metric to standard. I don't know much about James River. I know on the upper end of the spectrum are companies like LRB and SEI. LRB is supposed to make a fantastic milled receiver rifle and they have models available with integral Picitanny rail scope mounts, but they cost as much as a Japanese import. I love the M14 and see why people say get both, I am just not much of a fan of the M1A, or of Springfield as a company.

I recently inherited my grandpa's M1 Garand. I think before I spend any more money on the M1A, I may spent a little on the Garand. I've always been fascinated with M1s. They just feel like a rifle should to me.
 
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I was thinking of getting a CMP M1 Garand, but CMP Garand is not cheap anymore, the only reason to have one is it is part of history, an American rifle that won the WW2. M14/M1A is a better rifle in my opinion and 308 is a bit cheaper to shoot. You maybe still able to find Norinco/Polytech M14s, no more imported into US but still pop up here and there. Some said soft bolt but many shoot just fine. I have my Norinco M14 with a TRW bolt and several Mil spec US parts, great shooter! Bought it cheap, but it is a fake one anyway! :)It is till rather cheap in Canada, but not $400 cheap many years ago!
https://marstar.ca/dynamic/product.jsp?productid=96801
They even have a 7.62x39 version, but why a M14 in 7.62x39, just get a SKS!
https://marstar.ca/dynamic/product.jsp?productid=96797
 
I have an itch to purchase M1A and was looking at them in the store the other day. I am interested in the Springfield Armory Loaded or National Match model.

My wife asks me why I wanted an M1A when I have a M1 at home. I pointed out that the National Match is an accurized version of the standard model.

She then asks, "why not just have your M1 accurized?"
To that I do not have a good answer. I do love shooting my CMP M1 so why not send it back to them and have their people do their magic on it.

Any pros and cons on accurizing my M1 Garands versus picking up a new M1A?

I have a National Match, shoots great.

However, I have been lusting over a custom Garand from these guys:

https://www.dgrguns.com/New-M1-Garand-Package-Deals-Main.htm
 
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