M7 vs M9 Bayonet

[Panzerschwein]

Hi everyone! I am looking for a bayonet for the Mossberg M590A1 shotgun I am about to buy. I want a USGI bayonet, and understand the M7 is a Vietnam era design and the M9 is a newer Gulf War era design.

So which one of these would you rather have on your rifle or shotgun, and why?

M7 Bayonet



M9 Bayonet

 

[rcmodel]

M7

I'm not strong enough to lift an M9 & sheath for it anymore.

rc

 

[Speedo66]

It's been a long time since I carried an M-7 bayonet (47 years), so forgive me if I don't remember, is it double edged? If so, that may present a problem in certain jurisdictions.

If the hole in the M-9 blade is for wire cutting with the sheath, that might be handy to have.

 

[bannockburn]

Cooldill

Depends on what you want to do with it. My brother was in the Army for many years and used both. He thought the M7 was a solid bayonet design but not really good for much of anything else. He usually carried an Air Force Survival Knife I bought him for anything that required using an actual knife. The M9 didn't really make for a good bayonet and was only so-so as a knife. It was difficult to put an edge on it and the wire cutting feature was relatively useless; I believe he carried actual wire cutters with him when he was out in the field.

I took a couple of West German copies of the M6 and M7 bayonets that my brother gave me and removed the upper ring, reshaped the guard, and refinished them. Good blades on both bayonets and it's quick and easy to put a decent edge on them. They make for good knock-around knives to take camping.

 

[Sunray]

Bayonets are for parades and opening envelopes. However, like bannockburn says, what are you planning on using a bayonet on a shotgun for?
No Mossberg M590A1's in the Southeast Asian War Games. In any case, if you're in a situation where a bayonet is your only option, you need to reviews your tactics, cause that'd be worse than having to resort to a handgun.

 

[kBob]

"When I wants whiskey I drinks whiskey and when I wants water I drink water."

If you want a weapon that mounts on your long arm I would go with the M7.

If you want a wire cutter/saw/bottle opener that fits on your rifle then go with the M9.

I voted M7.

So you have not discovered the old "Stoner 63" bayonets? They had the wire cutting feature and the saw on a much lighter blade that was abit thin for my taste but where lighter than the M9. Some "63's had a storage space in the handle, some had a front sight tool in the handle and some had solid butt caps with no sliding door at all. I suspect Stoner got a look at an AKM bayonet and thought "why not?" They fit the M-16 series rifles as well as the Stoner 63 and they fit the AR-18/180......he wait Stoner had something to do with all those!

I did a review of the Probuis Bayonet right as it was adopted and played up the many uses of the M9 bayonet but honestly, for use as a bayonet the M7 would be my choice. In my first old Infantry squad we all carried one or more small tools, one guy a set of vise grips, another a hacksaw blade holder and blade, another decent wire cutters, I carried a Cresent wrench and sharpening stones and another carried a double ended screw driver. At least one guy had a TL59 linemans kit of that black handled pocket knife with a single blade and a "tool" blade that had an edge but ended in a flathead screw driver and this in a pouch that held a set of lineman's plyers. No it was not convienient to have tools scattered so one had to find the right guy to find the right gear.....but dedicated tools worked better than an M9 could.

As a kid I carried an M5A1 bayonet as a sheath knife most of the time and an M4 bayonet for most of the rest of the time. I never found them particularly lacking as a sheath knife. As a bayonet I really liked that blade shape and style if it were sharpened on both sides and country to what some have written in our other bayonet discussions in my Infantry unit all were kept sharp including the short top "false edge".

If I wanted a bunch of tools in a handy package then my pocket knife would be a Swiss Army knife and I would have a bayonet that was good at being a bayonet.

-kBob

 

[rcmodel]

I just weighed them both in the scabbards on a kitchen scale.

M7 = 13 oz.
M9 = 1lb, 10oz.

rc

 

[JShirley]

M7.

But in general, grunts and former grunts like me think bayonets are for posers.

 

[Bobson]

Forgive my ignorance, and I realize a bladed tool/weapon can often be employed in a variety of tasks, but when I hear the term "bayonet," I don't think knife, wire cutter, or saw; I think stabbing weapon.

Given that the OP is talking about mounting this bayonet on a 590A1 (often praised in regards to HD), I have to assume he's looking for a tool that will primarily serve as a stabbing weapon for HD backup. How many people find themselves in the garage needing wire cutters, and instinctively run to the gun case? So, wouldn't either of these work just fine?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I carried a Randall Model 14 Bowie knife both tours in Viet Nam, and everywhere I went after that. A good bowie is a useful tool -- for opening ration boxes, clearing firing lanes, cutting camouflage and so on.

The M7 is just about the most useless piece of junk the Army ever issued. The M9 however, will substitute for a good bowie.

 

[CapnMac]

My vote is "yes."

The reason for the bayonet mount on the M590 was so that a given security detail can fix bayonets for the visual intimidation factor (the probability of "Charge, Bayonet!" being mostly nil).

The M7 is completely adequate to that task.

However, the scabbard for the M9 is far more handy. It uses the Bianchi clip system rather than M-1910 hooks. It can be unclipped easily from web gear to sheath the bayonet when required (like for bayonet drill).

Now, unless you need to participate in security details or such similar drills, you can assess whether or not you have to have an M9 bayonet to have an M9 scabbard. Do note that an M7 will fit in an M9 scabbard.

 

[rcmodel]

Do note that an M7 will fit in an M9 scabbard.

But not very well.
It's a sloppy loose fit, and rattles around, even with both keepers snapped.

Enough so to get you wiped out & kilt creeping around in the dark in injun country!

rc

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks for the replies gang!

I plan to make a modern "trench gun" out of my M590A1 when I get it. I'll add a heat shield, sling, and bayonet. This will be the 20" bbl 9-shot model with bead sight, and nothing else.

In form, it will mimic the M1897 and M1912 trench guns. I know, it's probably silly to have a bayonet on a shotgun. Heck, it's probably silly to have a heat shield too. Well why not stop there, it's probably silly to have a 9-shot 12 gauge shotgun huh?

I want one because I want one. That's it.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, I won't go so far as to say silly.

But I will say if you have a bayonet, and know how to fight with a bayonet?

Then a heat shield would be necessary to keep from burning your tender soft fingers on a smoking hot barrel doing a horizontal butt stroke, followed by a slash & thrust.

DI: What is the spirit of the bayonet Son ???
Troop: TOO KILL! TOO KILL!! TOO KILL!!!!

Putting a bayonet on a firearm involves more then making it an empty weapon with a pointy end on it.

A skilled bayonet fighter is about as dangerous as it gets at close range.

An unskilled bayonet fighter is a danger to himself and others.

PS: I must say I think the bayonet does still have a place in the military.

And that would be in riot & crowd control.

In my experience during the 1968 race riots.
Lots of people were brave enough to come up in your face and get punched in the chest with an empty rife muzzle.

But I never seen one brave enough to get up in your face and get punched in the chest with a fixed bayonet!!
Even with the scabbard on it!

rc

 

[yugorpk]

Since Bayonets never actually get used as bayonets in war time you have to ask which is the better utility knife and that role has to go to the M9 IMHO. The Army has even stopped doing bayonet drills in Basic Training.

 

[ROAshooter]

"The Army has even stopped doing bayonet drills in Basic Training"



the Marines...have not...

 

[Ron James]

The following is true, no names have been changed to protect the guilty. I thought I was the original source of this phase but I've since found out it has been muttered before. 1959, Hot summer day in Fort Lost in the woods , Mo. Basic training , B-4-2. Bayonet drill, yes we had been assaulting dummies hanging from a rope and also attached to posts. Actually I thought it was kind of fun ( hey, I was young and full of p and v. ). Drill Sgt. called us together and as the lesson was intoned I heard, " if the bayonet becomes stuck in bone, you can fire a round to break it free. " I swear I couldn't help myself, I spoke up, " SSgt. Big and mean, If I have a round in My rifle, there isn't going to be any bayonet sticking. ". I was not trying to be funny, I was dead serious, later when I was marching around the company square in full gear I realized that I had learned a big lesson. There was a time to keep my opinions to myself and that was one of them. Long, long time ago. BTW, If you have to ask where Fort Lost in The Woods is, then you have never been to Ft. Leonard Wood, Mo.

 

[redbone]

I don't remember ever seeing a bayonet in Iraq, but then I wasn't really looking for bayonets either. Most had large folding knives and/or multi-tools.

 

[rcmodel]

It's lost in the sands of time in the sandbox wars.

Ask a WWII or Korea vet about Banzai and Human wave assaults sometime though.

My bayonet instructor in 1964 had survived a Human Wave attack in Korea.
He stripped his shirt off to make his point.

The guy had enough scars to look like the loser in a chain-saw fight.
But he was the surviver.

And he could carve his initials in your shirt with an M-14 bayonet before you could flench.

Today, we base our weapons & training on the last war we fought.

But there may come a day when we are facing those same human wave attacks again in some forlorn place.
And a bayonet and knowing how to use it might be a life saving skill at some point in future wars.

rc

 

[yugorpk]

I always though your last round was to help dislodge your bayonet from the Rooskies skull.

At least thats what they told us at Leonard Wood.

 

[Devonai]

Rcmodel, the version I was taught was as follows:

Drill Sergeant Vance: What is the spirit of the bayonet?

4th Platoon: To kill, kill, kill, with cold blue steel!

Drill Sergeant McCann: What makes the green grass grow?

4th Platoon: Blood, blood, blood!

The M7 and the M9 are neither here nor there. The M5 and M6 are more apropos for the discussion as the tip of a more worthy spear, if that's what you're rifle has been reduced to. As a field knife that might serve the purpose of a bayonet, the M9 is best. As a spear blade mounted on a short spear that will probably not bend or break (probably), the M7 is best.

 

[rcmodel]

Well.
I have a Phrobis III M-9 in my knife collection.
And several M3 fighting knives and later M1 Carbine and M-16 bayonets using the same blade.

So far, I have found the M9 saw won't saw, the wire cutter won't cut wire, the false edge used by the wire cutter won't do anything else, and the knife edge won't hold an edge any longer then it takes to sharpen it.

Here's all I know of the true M9 story!!
And it's a good'n for sure!!!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=683629&highlight=M9+bayonet

rc

 

[maxxhavoc]

Of the two, M9. Personal Preference is the OKC 3S.

 

[hso]

I want one because I want one. That's it.

Go all out and put a repro Garand bayonet on your ersatz trench gun since this is just for appearances.

I put a 03 bayonet on my Win trench gun and keep it with my other U.S. milsurps on display in a rotating rack.

If it's just for fun, just have fun with it.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I have been through bayonet training in basic.

Very interesting replies everyone! I am still making up my mind. Can't wait to get my trench gun put together!