Mag Light

[kayak-man]

It would seem that, as far as a defensive weapon goes, the Mag Light is pretty straightforward: The hard metal part of it collides with Mr. Ski-mask's head.

But I'm hungry for more. I understand that in terms of stopping power, the Mag Light may be the best, but it is the one thing that I can carry with me pretty much all the time without any problems in terms of legality.

What martial arts or defensive classes would be the most beneficial from the standpoint of using a Mag Light. As much as i would like to learn grappling and add some more striking, blocking, and throwing techniques to my toolbox, that all, for the purpose of this question, takes a back seat to making me more proficient with a Mag Light.

I appreciate any and all feedback. If it helps at all, I have 3-cell Mag Light that is usually with in arms reach, and a mini mag light on my belt. I know that a mini mag light can be used as a kubotan (which reminds me, I need to learn how to use a kubotan for the different joint locks) , so I'm going to ask that you clarify if the art/style/system that your mentioning is geared for the 3-cell or the mini mag.

Thanks.

P.S.
I know that there is at least one design out there of a Mag Light that conceals a .410 shotgun, so please don't start your responce with "take a shotgun shell..."

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Distance

While I have to agree that a bonk on the head with a Maglite would certainly be a great discouragement, that's something you have to be at contact distance to use.

That means if you're close enough to bean him with the light, he's close enough to do damage with a knife, bottle, sap, or what have you. You're also in grappling distance, and that can lead to all kinds of random stuff, and random means you have no assurance of the outcome.

A little distance can be your friend.

Canes and other sticks provide distance.

Canes legal pretty much everywhere, and having one in the home is no biggie.

Canes, cudgels, walking sticks, shillelaghs, staffs, and the like can all be marvelously effective with a bit of training.

I'm sure there will be someone along shortly who can give some guidance on Maglite resources, but while you're waiting, you might give some thought to the extra distance provided by the extra foot or two of wood.

Just a thought.

 

[Carl Levitian]

You do not use a Maglight to bonk anyone on the head. At least not right off.

The whole idea of a maglight being used as a weapon in plain sight is, that it is used to block and injure the hands and wrist holding the knife of Mr. Ski mask. You target the hands, wrists, forarms. Disable you're attacker first. You don't go for the head untill you've done away with the threat in his hand. Even then, head shots are tricky, go for inflicting facial injuries instead. More nerve endings, impair eye sight, impair breathing. The maglight can block a knife thrust way safer than your own hand or arm. Why get cut when you can stick some aluminum tubing in the way?

 

[hso]

As Carl pointed out, introducing Mr. Maglite to Mr. Ski-mask's head can result in a dead Mr. Ski-mask and potential introduction of Mr. Kayak-man's backside with Mr. Life-term-criminal. Wait until the relationship matures a bit and engage in light "petting" and "heavy petting" before going all the way. That will require learning some skills with Mr. Maglite, as you've already surmised.

Take an ASP course and then practice same with your maglites.

 

[Carl Levitian]

"A little distance can be your friend.

Canes and other sticks provide distance.

Canes legal pretty much everywhere, and having one in the home is no biggie.

Canes, cudgels, walking sticks, shillelaghs, staffs, and the like can all be marvelously effective with a bit of training."




Sticks are a wonderful tool. As much as I've flown since 9-11, nobody has said boo about my Irish blackthorn stick, exept one guy who commented on what a nice walking stick it is.

The best thing about them is that so many times one can be a simple everyday object that nobody would give a seconds thought over.

 

[kayak-man]

Thanks, all very useful comments. I agree that a stick would give me added reach, I'm considering finding a long, sturdy umbrella.

ASP training is good advice, I'm going to see if I can look for that, any advice on how to practice the techniques without smashing my training partners hand?

also, as serious as this subject is, I found the wording of "As Carl pointed out, introducing Mr. Maglite to Mr. Ski-mask's head can result in a dead Mr. Ski-mask and potential introduction of Mr. Kayak-man's backside with Mr. Life-term-criminal." To be very funny I understand the seriousness of the warning, and I agree, deadly force is a last resort, because if you use it, and your wrong, or the jury thinks your wrong, your going to end up in some place that is most definitely not a ski resort. Thank you for that.

Have a good one

 

[Leadhead]

I'm considering finding a long, sturdy umbrella.

http://www.real-self-defense.com/unbreakable_umbrella.html

 

[conw]

 

[Carl Levitian]

kayak-man, how old are you?

Depending on your age bracket you may look very at home carrying a nice sturdy walking stick. I know most younger guys feel self concious about it, that it does not look right for a young guy to be toting a cane around.

A stick give you something you can take anywhere, at any time. Airlines, federal buildings, courthouses. And its always right there in your hand.

As far as a martial art, there are some that specialize in stick fighting.

 

[lloveless]

kayakman,
See #28 of my post on choosing an cane. I don't know how to do the link. sorry
ll

(That's okay. [post=6085672]The link is here[/post].)

​

 

[kayak-man]

To set the record straight: I'm 19.

I like the walking stick idea, BUT: I do a lot of hiking(or I try to), and have found that I don't really care for walking with a stick. I broke my leg about a year ago, and spent some time with a cane, so I can totally see where your coming from, but I don't think that I could get away with using a cane or walking stick: A lot of the people who know me, even just in passing, know that I'm very active and in good health, so it would seem out of place. I tend to either arrive at or leave work when its dark out, so the Maglite blends in a bit more.

That Umbrella looked nice, but since I'm going to college, I just can't afford to pay over $120 for an umbrella. I already own a maglite, so I'm probably going to keep using the maglite.

Also, on the training aspect, could someone point me in the direction of a training system that would help me with baton assisted grip/joint manipulation (preferably some that could be used with the 3-cell and/or mini maglite)? There's an Akido dojo nearby, and I'm friends with one or two LEO's, enlisted army, and ex marines respectively. Think any of those would be worth consulting? ( I know they all have things to teach me, but I was thinking specifically of the maglite.)

Thanks for all the input.

P.S. I have already invested in the most important self defence training: I was on the cross country team in highschool!

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Get a cane and use it a C-Cell Mag lite will be good if you get the training.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

There's an Akido dojo nearby

If you study AiKiDo, you can learn very quickly how rudimentary disarming can be, which will in turn make you accept that nothing in your hand is an absolute.

My first AiKiDo/HapKiDo instructor practiced and taught cane as a primary skill for the reasons enumerated here and elsewhere. To be blunt, he was mean and dangerous, but with a cane he was downright untouchable and could enforce peace in the sphere around him quickly and precisely.

Otherwise, he just looked like an old guy walking along with a cane.

The mag light ain't a bad idea. But, some training in disarms in a structured environment like a dojo (AiKiDo or whatever) will show you a lot of things you never considered and make your choices more informed and your offense/defense with that choice less easily overwhelmed.

The world isn't peopled by bad guys who just stand there. Lots of bad guys are lifelong brawlers who want you to swing that mag light at them so they can get in a stop hit, stun you, and then use that light on you.

Training is the key because the mind is what limits you.

 

[hso]

There should be some 'clubs' on campus in martial arts. Look for any of the FMA or other stick fighting type of groups.

 

[Carl Levitian]

kayak-man, have you given any thought to getting a 16 inch ASP?

Lots lighter than a full size maglight, and easier to carry tucked in a coat pocket or in a belt sheath and be inconspicous and out of sight. About 7 or 8 inches when folded down. Faster handling, and probably a bit more effective due to the faster speed it can be wielded at.

Since it's 16 inches at it's extended length, its way better for blocking a knife, box cutter or broken bottle. It will give you some distance that a maglight won't.

Just a thought.

 

[kayak-man]

In my origanal post, i said that the Maglite "May be the best thing out there in terms of stopping power." The sentence was supposed to read: The Maglite may NOT be the best thing out there in terms of stopping power, but it's what I have."

I already own a maglite. It's a 3 battery D-cell model, and it's sitting in front of me right next to my computer. I don't want to carry a cane for reasons that have already been posted on this forum. I understand that the maglite is short, heavy, slow, and at times slippery. I understand that it is not the ideal weapon. It is a flashlight. It is a flashlight that just happens to be big enough and heavy enough and hard enough that it could be used for self defense.

People have suggested that I get a cane, a walking stick, an indestructible umbrella, and an ASP baton. Each one of those performs the same task: it provides me with the ability to block a knife or what have you, and they give me a bit more striking range. The maglite also does that - yes, it only gives me half the range (or less) than an ASP baton, but it extends my range. I may be wrong on this, and if I am please tell me, but the training I get is going to make more of a difference than the tool itself. The training is what I'm looking for.

I'll take any advice I can get, be it on what to carry or how to learn how to use it, but right now, I think that the latter would be more beneficial.

I think that I'm going to give Aikido a try, but my understanding is that Aikido is mostly empty-hand. In addition to that, would an ex-marine or cop friend of mine be able to teach me how to use a stick like weapon (ranging from mini-maglite to kubotan to full size maglight to ASP baton) or do I still need to keep looking elsewhere?

I practice situational awareness, and I try to avoid doing stupid things, especially in stupid places. My main concern is the five hundred or so feet I have to walk from the pool where I work to my car. My attacker would most likely be someone I kicked out of the pool, or a disgruntled parent of one of my students (I teach swimming lessons). The chances of this are slim to none, but I think that is the most probable scenario that I need to be on the lookout for. I'm not sure if that info will help at all, but it might.

Is my head in the right place, or do you see anything wrong with my reasoning on the pool parking lot, umbrella vs maglite, or anything?

Thanks for all the input.

 

[shotgunjoel]

Also, I'm quite sure that you've thought of this, but you could blind the attacker with your flashlight too. Those LED models can be crazy bright, especially close-in. It would work really well at night, when you might be more likely to be attacked.

 

[Readyrod]

Shine the maglite in Mr. Skimask's eyes and he becomes Mr. Blindguy. Then if he doesn't give up clobber him.

 

[MillCreek]

To the OP, just FYI, but in many jurisdictions, it is illegal to carry an ASP or other collapsible baton. You may want to look into that first. A flashlight is generally legal everywhere, at least when used for lighting purposes.

 

[conw]

I don't agree that flashlights can be relied upon to blind anyone. If you're close enough to blind them literally, they can already grab you. (Yes, I have some super-bright lights and have tested this with friends)

As for umbrellas, you don't really need an "indestructible" one although they do look cool. A good golf umbrella for about $15-30 should be fine.

 

[hso]

would an ex-marine or cop friend of mine be able to teach me how to use a stick like weapon

Don't bet on that.

Again, look into the martial arts clubs on campus. Let us know which ones you find. If you can find an Escrima club get together with them.

 

[Pax Jordana]

Kubota (if not the inventor then the great salesperson and promoter of the kubotan) wrote a book. It had pictures. As far as application goes, it seems sort of straightforward to me. Now many here will shake their heads at books standing in the place of real practice/learning, and rightfully so. But it would make a healthy supplement to whatever real world training you can find. (that and, some of the really basic stuff you can teach yourself!)

I had a friend who took kali and/or escrima, who told me that its strong point is that forms are very similar if not the same whether using empty hand, or a knife, or a club (or clubs akimbo).. it may more readily translate to kubaton than other arts.

 

[kayak-man]

Last night, I went to my first Aikido session. I will be going back, maybe tonight. The hard part is trying to work it around my schedule at work and at school.

I know that the original post didn't ask this, but I'm the OP so I figure its alright: Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever used Aikido outside of the dojo? How did it work out for you?

Thanks again.

 

[glistam]

Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever used Aikido outside of the dojo? How did it work out for you?

I have, just a few times. It has been some time and I have forgotten a lot of the terminology, but I have had certain situations where I was it was important to me to at least attempt not to injure a violent person. A specific person was larger than me, but rather uncoordinated. I've love to tell some tall tale about fluidly and acrobatically putting him out without breaking a sweat; ah no such luck. A lot of it is a ugly mess of grabs, arm wrenches and shoves in my memory. Some of the more effective techniques involve redirecting a lunge around yourself. Grapple breaks also were quite handy though I still ended up with a ripped shirt collar and several missing buttons (thank god I don't wear a tie). And sometimes you gotta give em a good punch or elbow here and there to gain a bit of leeway to complete a throw or pin.