Magazine sale rip off

[DragonFire]

While cruising Ebay I came across an item for some Glock 22 magazines. Though the description explicitly stated they weren't high-cap magazines, the pictures showed hi-caps. I sent a message to the seller asking which they were.

He responded by saying they were indeed hi-caps but Ebay had a restriction against them. By the time I got the reply Ebay had pulled his auction. He sent me another email saying he'd still sell me 2 pre-ban, hi-cap Glock 22 magazines at his reserve price of $60.

Here in NY the high cap magazines are still prohibited, so $30 for one is a good price considering they're are going for $20 just across the border in Penn. So I paid him through Paypal.

The magazines arrived today, and across the top of them is engraved "Restricted LE/govt only". These mags are still banned in NY state. Now that I think back, the picture on Ebay was blurred near the top (which is why I couldn't be sure how many witness holes there really were).

I feel that a knowledgable person would know that LE only magazines are "special" and the fact that he knew enough to say "pre-ban" tells me the seller was knowledgable. I'm pretty sure the seller knew he was selling me "tainted goods". I'm given the mags to a friend with a FFL until I can figure out what to do with them. I really can't keep them.

While being ripped off for the $60 is bad enough, I feel worse about being ripped off by a fellow shooter. So many shooters have this "us vs them" attitude when it comes to government in general and gun regulations specifically, this guy obviously cares only for "I". I'm sure he could have sold his magazines in a state where they are now legal, he just wouldn't have made as big a profit. I can't even say I'm angry, just bummed out about it all.

 

[cslinger]

Have you contacted the seller. It may be an honest mistake. Alot of shooters are just taking for granted that you can own any ole' magazine these days and may just assume that goes for all 50 states.

Now don't get me wrong the seller could just be some jagoff, God knows there are lots of them, but he may simply have not known what he was doing. Technically couldn't he be at fault for supplying the magazines to you?

Give him a chance to make it right. One chance only but a chance none the less.

It's Christmas and my typical cynical ******* nature wains just a bit.

 

[Moonclips]

It's not too clear to me what happened. The seller confirmed they were hi-caps, pre-ban or not. You knew hi-cap mags are still illegal in NY. Why did you go ahead and buy them then?

 

[Trebor]

I'm confused. The seller said they were Hi-caps. You bought them anyway. You should know if they are prohibited in your state or not.

The "LEO RESTRICTED" markings are meaningless now that that AWB has expired.

The magazines were exactly as described. What's your problem with the seller?

 

[Spot77]

Does that state of New York prohibit items marked as "LEO/GOV Only" even though the fed ban expired?

Seems wierd

 

[cslinger]

What the original poster is saying, I believe, is that he thought they were Pre 1994 magazines which would be legal in NY.

The seller may have used the term preban just to signify that they were indeed full capacity magazines and the jargon has simply stuck. OTOH the seller may have been trying to misrepresent them as Pre-1994 magazines to sell to people in states like NY. If the latter is true then I believe the seller is actually the guilty one based on my discussions with the BATFE, as long as the receiver reports this and does not retain the magazines. This is Federal AWB times I am talking about.

My guess is it will be cleared up with an email and the seller will breath a sigh of relief when he finds out he shipped illegal mags to NY and will be happy to refund the posters money. If not and the the poster is feeling evil, contact the United States Post Office and sick them on the guy for fraud and sending illegal products to a prohibeted state.

 

[cslinger]

Spott

California, MA, New Jersey and others still have varying degrees of state level AWB's in place. The New York one mirrored the Federal one as far as I know which means that for a NY resident it is simply like the AWB still exists as it did pre September.

 

[motoman]

Now that unmarked glock "Normal Capacity"

magazines are available again, how does a State like New York distinguish between pre 94 mags, and fresh 2004 unmarked "Normal Capacity mags"?
If they aren't marked, aren't they assumed to be ok?

 

[DragonFire]

Cslinger is correct on all counts. NY state passed state laws that copied the federal AWB except without the sunset clause.

The seller told me they were pre-ban hi-cap magazines, which are still legal in NYS, but didn't disclose that they are LE only mags which were and still are illegal. I believe he tried to hide the fact by dilliberately blurring the picture he posted on Ebay.

I've sent him an email to see what if anything he'll do about it. If he doesn't refund my money, I'm not sure what I'll do.

Reporting him to the post office or ATF is tempting, but I may just give them to my FFL to sell (which he can still do legally to LEOs). Like I said, if I thought he did it unintentionally it would be one thing, but I'm pretty sure he knew. Oh well, it's almost Christmas, maybe I'll just give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[hksw]

Where was the seller from? Personally, I had no idea NYS still has the ban on.

 

[RavenVT100]

NJ still has the ban on, too. And a few other states (that are not California), I'm sure.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Could he be prosecuted for shipping? Not sure if he broke any laws. You, however, did import a "high-capacity-feeding-device". I would not report this fact to any official agency.

Write it off as an honest mistake. Post 'em in the sale forum,and sell 'em out of state.

 

[sturmruger]

I sold several hundred LE Only mags this summmer. I bought them before the ban expired, and then shipped them to people on the 14th of Sept. I honestly didn't look into any of the state laws to see if I could get in trouble. I knew that I couldn't send any CA, but other then that I didn't have a clue where I couldn't send those marked mags. It sounds like this guy made an honest mistake. Did you specifically ask him if they were marked mags??

 

[OpenRoad]

DragonFire, if I were you I'd take a roadtrip out of state.

 

[Trebor]

Dragonfire, did you explicitly explain that only non-marked pre-ban high caps were legal in your state and that's the only thing you wanted to buy? Or, did you do what you did in the first post here and just ask if they were high-caps? The seller said they were high caps and unless you specifically mentioned that you couldn't have LEO marked mags or the seller specifically said they were pre-ban high-caps, I'd put the onus on you.

The seller blurred the pic so eBay wouldn't pull the ad. They did anyway, but he tried.

I'd try to resolve it with the seller. I'd chalk it up to poor communication, possibly on your part even, and not on any attempt to defraud you.

 

[JohnKSa]

The seller lied.

He said the mags were pre-ban. They were NOT pre-ban. They were LEO marked post-ban mags. If there were any pre-ban LEO marked mags, I'm not aware of them. Since the LEO markings were a product of the ban--it makes zero sense that anyone who had even a remote clue about the ban would accidentally call an LEO marked mag a pre-ban mag.

OK, I've got a question for DragonFire,

Given that new hi-cap mags that are not date marked or LEO marked are once again being made and sold in the U.S., how does N.Y. propose to determine if an unmarked hi-cap you have is pre-ban or new manufacture?

 

[DragonFire]

I have no idea how NY is going to tell pre-ban from new manufactur. And since I can't buy new ones, I probably won't be able to personally find out. Around here we assume that the manufacturers will have to date stamp the magazines somehow.

Keep in mind that NY isn't alone in still keeping the ban in place. I believe there are 8 states altogether.


I seller contacted me this morning and is going to take the magazines back. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but like it's been said here, Pre-ban mags and LEO only mags are two completely different things.

 

[riverdog]

AFAIK, new full capacity mags look just like Pre-94 mags. I second taking a road trip and avoiding eBay.

 

[9mmMike]

RavenVT100 said:

NJ still has the ban on, too. And a few other states (that are not California), I'm sure.

I am not sure that this is the case in NJ. Where did you read this? I know that anything over 15 rounds is taboo but I have not read anything that stated LE-marked mags are banned in NJ.

Please provide a source for this information.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[JohnKSa]

You should probably keep records showing that you returned the magazines.

If you go out of state to purchase mags, you should pay cash and unwrap them and discard all receipts & packaging before re-entering the state.

I agree that you should not try to purchase any more mags over the net unless you can 100% verify that they are pre-ban before they are shipped.

 

[9mmMike]

OK. I checked with the VP of The New Jesey Coalition For Self Defense (Thanks Ray!) and LE-marked mags are legal to posess in NJ. You still can not have any mags over 15 rounds though.