Magnum - Small rifle vs small pistol

[Jim Watson]

What is the CCI BR4 rated as?
Standard rifle, magnum rifle, military rifle?

Any road, its average velocity in my 9mm load of the time was one (1) fps different from CCI SP.

 

[FLIGHT762]

The CCI BR4 is the Match version of the CCI 400. It does however, have a .025" cup opposed to the 400 having a .020" cup.

 

[Jim Watson]

Explains why it was tough to seat. But no misfires.

 

[Curious2]

One issue with using small Rifle magnum primers in a Pistol / Revolver, the SMR primers have a thicker cup @ .025". Small rifle primers have a cup thickness of .020". Small Pistol primers have a cup thickness of about .018".

Not many Pistols / Revolvers will set off a .025" primer cup. I've tested them in a Glock and the .025" will not ignite reliably. I do use the Winchester and CCI SRP with the .020" cup and they work fine.

I suggest you test these primers before you load a bunch up. For my testing, I just used a primed case to test rather than loaded rounds.

Spot on Flight762! Small rifle magnum primers don't like to play in my revolvers but the standard small rifle play just fine.

 

[cowboyjoe97]

Per CCI - "CCI 450 primers are commonly used with palma style brass and for use in small rifle applications where a ball powder is involved and the load data calls for them. You will not want to use these in handgun cartridge applications where they are not called for."

Again.. much thanks to the group.

 

[SingleActionAndrew]

Maybe 454 Casull is a good application

 

[DMW1116]

I hear people use them for stuff like 300 Blackout and as a substitute for CCI or Winchester #41 mil-spec primers. My Lyman manual uses CCI #41 primers for 300 BO. They also might be a good idea for rifle calibers traditionally made with LRP, but brass is available with small primer pockets. I hear there are 308 and 30-30 cases with small primer pockets instead of normal large primer pockets. I hear they're also used for powders like H335 when cold weather use is expected.

 

[johnjohn]

According to my Lyman 47 use srpm in .223 . Don't know why but a friend tells me that ain't written in stone. But it's in that book.

 

[2ndtimer]

Excellent feedback here!
First, I am using CCI No 450 - Small Rifle 'Magnum'

Next, i want to understand:
1. What are CCI No450 Small Rifle Magnum designed for specifically.
- i see a lot of comments about using these for .223, 6.8, 40S&W, 9MM and pretty sure none of those are "Magnum". Some are small rifle and some are small pistol, but none are "Magnum".

As others have pointed out, originally the CCI-450 small rifle magnum primers were intended to be used with ball powders, since they pack together tighter in the case with less air space and are more difficult to ignite. Today, there are also a number of larger cases offered with small primer pockets i.e. 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 Win which also benefit from the magnum primer to consistently ignite their larger powder volumes.

2. I did try these in my .357 Magnum revolver and 6 did not fire. the other 94 fired just fine. I tried those 6 twice in my pistol and inspected each round to see if the seating was too deep or not.

Small rifle primers (both standard and magnum) have thicker cups than small pistol primers to better contain the higher pressures generated by rifle cartridges. The firing pin springs in rifles have sufficient strength to reliably fire those primers while many handguns do not. In my experience with trying some standard S&B small rifle primers in 9mm, a Glock 19 (striker fired) failed to fire about 50% of the time, while a CZ P-09 (hammer fired) was about 90% reliable and 100% fired on the second pull of the double action trigger.

So... .with that stated above. These do work for .357Mag reloads, using both Remington and PMC brass. The size worked and I did not see any negative results. But I'm still curious what else these No450s were designed for. Is this possibly if you were shooting .44mag or .357mag out of a henry rifle? does the "Pistol" vs "Rifle" really matter. I'm not aware of Magnum rifles; unless they are shooting what we consider pistol ammo (.357, 44, etc).

Thanks for the feedback so far and I will be using my Winchester primers that are specifically WSPM (Winchester Small Pistol Magnum) primers going forward. I may use these CCI No450 (Small Rifle Magnum) primers for my plinkers.

Best practices are to follow the recommendations of the manufacturers, use the recommended primers for the load data published whenever possible. In these days of scarcity/high prices, one may try using alternatives, but as with all hand loading, use caution, start low and work up gradually to ensure safety for yourself and your firearm.

 

[Reloadron]

I was given a brick of "Small rifle primers - Magnum" No. 450. What are these used/designed for? Can they be used in a "Small pistol - Magnum"?

What rifle is a Magnum?

Every now then and again questions like this arise in the wonderful world of primers. I gather by now you have a good answer like yes, maybe, sometimes. Generally "magnum" primers are used with ball or flake powders. They afford better ignition. This line of thinking shows up quite a bit in my old Speer #12 Reloading Manual. Overall as mentioned magnum rifle primers require a harder strike for ignition and your CCI 450 primers are small rifle magnum primers. Will your pistol firing pin hit them hard enough? Beats me.

Questions concerning specific primers should be addressed to those making the primers. Rather then phone conversations I like email. CCI is real good about a response in a day or two. When substituting primers the guys making them will always tell you to never substitute primers and only follow known good loading manual data. Can it be done? Yes, with mixed results.

Ron