Mailing a firearm to myself interstate: easy or difficult?

[cpileri]

According to the ATF website:
"(B10) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm. "
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8


So I can mail myself a firearm if I plan to visit a state which recognises my Texas CHL and am flying so I want to mail it and not take it through the airport and TSA goons, right?

How EXACTLY is this done? does it matter that it is a handgun versus a rifle as it does for transfers?

I just want to mail myself a ccw gun peacefully and painlessly, both there and back.

Please help,
C-

 

[R.H. Lee]

43 Firearms
431 Definitions
431.1 Firearm
A firearm is defined as any device (including a starter gun) that is designed, or may readily be converted, to expel a projectile by an explosion, a spring, or other mechanical action, or by air or gas pressure with sufficient force to be used as a weapon.
431.2 Handgun
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (for example, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles) are defined as handguns. The following definitions apply:
a. Pistol or Revolver. A pistol or revolver is a handgun designed to be fired by the use of a single hand.
b. Short-Barreled Rifle. A rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches long is defined as a short-barreled rifle. This includes any weapon made from a rifle (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.
c. Short-Barreled Shotgun. A shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches long is defined as a short-barreled shotgun. This includes any weapon made from a shotgun (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.
431.3 Antique Firearm
An antique firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) is any firearm manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica of such a firearm, that meets either of the following conditions:
a. It is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
b. It uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, which is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available through ordinary commercial trade channels.
431.4 Rifles and Shotguns
A rifle is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 16 inches or more in length. A shotgun has a barrel of 18 inches or more in length. Rifles and shotguns have an overall length of 26 inches or greater and cannot be capable of being concealed on a person.
431.5 Licensed Manufacturer/Licensed Dealer
A manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer in firearms is one duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), U.S. Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968.
432 Mailability
432.1 General
The following conditions apply:
a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.
b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.
c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.
d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.
432.2 PS Form 1508
PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.
Exhibit 432.1
Mailability Requirements for Firearms

Handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer or dealer, an authorized federal agent, or an authorized state, territory, or district agent ONLY when addressed to one of the following addressee categories for use in official duties:
Addressee Affidavit Requirements
a. Officer of Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or organized reserve corps.
b. Officer of National Guard or militia of a state, district, or territory.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by commanding officer.
c. Officer of the federal government or a state, district, or territory whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees specifically authorized by the chief postal inspector.
e. Officer or employee of a U.S. enforcement agency.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by head of agency employing the addressee.
f. Watchman engaged in guarding federal, state, district, or territory property.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by chief clerk of department, bureau, or branch of government agency employing the addressee.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of an agency employing officers and personnel included in c, d, or e above.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of agency stating the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee cited in c, d, or e of the opposite column.
Unloaded Handgun
Mailer must be licensed manufacturer or dealer mailing to another licensed manufacturer or dealer. Addressee is FBI (or it's director) or scientific lab or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers, or state, district, or territory officers authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment. Manufacturers or dealers must complete PS form 1508, Statement by Shipper of firearms, and file with postmaster.
Postmasters may forward an unsatisfactory mailer statement to their RCSC for a ruling.

Unloaded Rifle or Shotgun
Short-barrelled rifles or shotguns that can be concealed on a person are nonmailable.
Mailer must comply with Gun Control Act of 1968 and with the state and local laws. USPS may require mailer to open parcel or give written certification that weapon is unloaded and not concealable. Registered mail service is recommended.

Unloaded Antique Firearm
Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are acceptable for mailing.

432.3 Packaging and Marking
No markings of any kind that indicate the nature of the contents may be placed on the outside wrapper or container of any mailpiece containing firearms. Mailable matter must be properly and securely packaged within the general packaging requirements in DMM C010.
433 Mailer Responsibility
Even though certain types of firearms are permitted to be mailed within the provisions of the postal law in 18 U.S.C. 1715, it is the mailer's responsibility to comply with all federal and state regulations and local ordinances affecting the movement of firearms.
434 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Mailers should be referred to the nearest regional ATF office for further advice. See 435 and Exhibit 435.
435 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF)
Exhibit 435 lists the locations of the Department of the Treasury's regional ATF offices.
Exhibit 435
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Regional Offices
http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm

 

[River Wraith]

Is there a Cliff notes version of that?

 

[Ian]

IIRC, you can't mail handguns to yourself over state lines, though you can do so with long guns. If you do it with a long gun, be aware that many shipping places will refuse the package if they find out it's a gun, even though it's legal. I once had a package place open a package of mine I was shipping, find a muzzleloading revolver (legally not a firearms at all), and then call me up and refuse to send the package.

However, you can check a pistol in your luggage for an airliner flight. It's been a couple years since I did this, but even after 9/11 it wasn't that much of a hassle (far less than I'd expected). You have to have the gun unloaded in a locked hard case (ammo must be packaged separately, and in factory boxes or hard cases; not loose) and you have to declare it when checking you bag(s). When I did it, they x-rayed the bag with the gun (in case I was hiding another gun in there, I guess), and then opened the hard case to look at the gun (though they didn't even check to confirm that it was unloaded). Finally, I had to sign a waiver (on an orange notecard) saying that if the gun went off I would assume all liability, or something like that (the card then went in with the gun).

 

[why_me]

Guess im paranoid

But there is no way i would check a handgun on a trip aboard a plane.
I would just leave it at home. My feeling is if you do decide to check a handgun while traveling you are just registering your hand gun with the feds.
I also think everyone buying a handgun for the last several years has also registered there handguns. Whether they think so or not.

 

[Wildalaska]

Go to your local gunshop where ya spend a lot of money, that has a Fed Ex acct (if they dont ya need to reevaluate where ya do biz). Bring em a Fed Ex box and an airbill. Pack the gun into the box in front of them. Ask them to Fed Ex it for ya and pay em for shippinbg...offer em a few bucks for their time..address:

From John Doe c/o Sams Hunting Emporium
To Jon Doe C/ o Mommy Doe

Easy

Wildidoit30timesamonthAlaska

 

[cpileri]

ffl to ffl it is then

I am with you on the belief that checking an unpapered gun at the airport is registering it.
Of course, if ever someone comes a=lookin' for your papered guns, Reasonable Suspicion will be that you have others and they'd likely take a peek around just to be sure.

Looks like I need to find a FFL near the airport in Logansport, IN.

C-

 

[SapperLeader]

Actually flying out of the airports isn’t that bad with a weapon. I have flown out of Baltimore, Louisville and Evansville Indiana with no problems. Well, in Baltimore they made me give me a reason on why I was flying with a gun (I said hunting with my xd-9 and p32 ) .

You declare the firearm, they either inspect it in front of you, or they bring it to the back and inspect it while you wait. That’s the last time your luggage gets opened by the searchers. If they need to see it again they find you. There have been several threads on the process, but it’s actually easier IMHO to fly with the gun than it is to mail it.

That said, I’m seriously thinking of never flying again after the fiascos with the TSA at the checkpoints, but that’s a topic of discussion for another thread.

 

[Graystar]

Legally, you can ship a handgun using UPS or FedEx overnight to yourself. You just can't use the USPS to mail it.

 

[NukemJim]

"Legally, you can ship a handgun using UPS or FedEx overnight to yourself. "

Try doing it though :banghead: almost impossible at least where I live.

Nukemjim

 

[River Wraith]

I don't see how checling a gun is registering it. It's not like they write down the serial number or anything. They don't even get the make and model. They know you have a gun, but that's about it.

 

[Graystar]

Try doing it though almost impossible at least where I live.

Yes, quite right. I hadn't checked UPS and Fedex in a while. Seems like the policy for UPS is that both shipper and recipient must be licensed, and with Fedex at least one must be licensed. So neither can be used (even though, as I said, there is technically nothing illegal with using them.) Apparently, neither can DHL.

Here's a good compilation of the carriers.

http://www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html

There was a thread at one time that discussed this issue. There are some people who believe that the federally mandated requirements of disclosure and overnight shipping don’t actually apply to non-licensees. Of course, one would still be violating the carriers rules, but that’s not law so...

I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Don of Kalifornia]

I just travel on Southwest Thanksgiving weekend. Was no hassle checking in my handgun, just needs to be in a hard TSA approved case, and unloaded. Southwest filled out a tag and dropped it in the case, the escorted me over to TSA. The TSA gentleman inspected the handgun making sure it wasn't loaded, then locked up my case for me. At no time did any Southwest or TSA employees even ask for my keys.

After the TSA employees locked my case, all he did was write 'TSA' on baggage claim tag, and loaded it on the conveyor.

Go ahead fly with a firearms, just call your airline first and ask what they require.

 

[SRYnidan]

Graystar

There is no federally mandated over night requirement. This started as a anti theft / revenue protection scheme by UPS.

 

[wdlsguy]

However, you can check a pistol in your luggage for an airliner flight.

Make sure possession is legal on both ends. The State of New York can be a real problem.

 

[Graystar]

There is no federally mandated over night requirement. This started as a anti theft / revenue protection scheme by UPS.

That’s right! I knew that! Sorry, I misspoke while trying to remember the exact subject of the thread I mentioned. I didn’t find the thread but I remembered what it was about.

The thread was about disclosure. The ATF FAQ says “Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm...†This in fact is only partially true. The carrier must be notified, in writing, that the shipment contains a firearm, but only if the recipient is a non-licensee. Federal law does not require disclosure when the recipient is a licensee.

Now the question is...are there any laws about violating a carrier's shipping policies? I'm pretty sure the answer is no. All they can do is refuse service. I think my next shipment to an FFL might be going ground!