Question on shipping a firearm, very confused

[6655321]

Hello

I need to ship a rifle that I sold to another person in this state.

I found this on the ATF's web site:

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be
used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract
carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

However, I am hearing different answers of everyone I ask as to whether or not it's ok for me to just ship it right to him.

Some people say I can ship it right to his front door.

Some say it has to go thru an FFL dealer.

I am in Florida.

If anyone could help me shed light on this it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Futuristic]

Yes and No. Did that Help?

I need to ship a rifle that I sold to another person in this state.

However, I am hearing different answers of everyone I ask as to whether or not it's ok for me to just ship it right to him.

Some people say I can ship it right to his front door.

Some say it has to go thru an FFL dealer.

I am in Florida.

Yes, (assuming there is no Floriday law to the contrary, I don't believe there is) you can just ship the gun to another Florida resident through the carrier of your choice.

HOWEVER, you might find that this is easier said than done. And, if you can do it, you probably don't want to do it.

Since it is a rifle, you can use the USPS. I'm not sure if they will take a rifle for delivery to a non-FFL. You can have them check the Domestic Mailing Manual for the answer to that. Most of the other carriers (FedEx, UPS) don't want to ship from a non-FFL to a non-FFL even though it is technically legal. And since you are not shipping to an FFL you MUST declare the firearm to them when you ship it, that's federal law. (18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31)

Even if you could get it shipped, you still need to be able to assert to anyone who investigates later that you sent it to a person eligible to possess firearms. If you haven't met the guy, how do you know he isn't a 14 year old with his dad's credit card? I would at minimum want a faxed/emailed copy of his driver's license. (Actually I just flat wouldn't do it without a face-to-face meeting.) This isn't like handing a gun off to someone in the parking lot at the gunshow. Here, you've never seen the person and don't have any real idea of who they are. Doesn't sound like the sort of thing BATFE would like to hear if the gun shows up in the wrong hands down the road. Might not be strictly illegal, or it might be, but more heartache than you need either way.

Futuristic

 

[Shrimper]

A firearms sale between two people in Florida is legal, in person or through a shipper, I have sold several rifles and shotguns over the years without any problems. However I would not send a handgun through the mail to anyone I did not know.

The best thing to do is exercise good judgment, a person that responds to a sale ad placed here on THR and knows what the legal requirements are and has a proper grasp of the English language I would complete a sale with. Also a person buying an expensive rifle probably is a shooter and not a criminal, a criminal would just get one on the street without worrying about the legal aspects of it.

Always get a signed statement from the buyer. I do not ask for a copy of a buyers ID. I do not want to be responsible for having their personal information in my possession and what does it prove, anyone could use a copy of another persons ID. Just like a clean cut guy at the gun show could be a complete nut job!

Get the paperwork and ship to an address in Florida, those are the two things you need to do satisfy the BATFE. Also long as you do that you are within the law 100% and have nothing to worry about.

 

[Dave P]

Hello

I need to ship a rifle that I sold to another person in this state.


Wrap it up, and take it to the USPS. I have shipped many rifles, and no one there ever asks for a FFL (none is required). All they care about is it hazardous, fragile, etc (the answer is no). Don't make it difficult.

Dave

 

[TarpleyG]

I don't even think you have to declare it as a firearm to the post office either making it that much easier.

Greg

 

[Shrimper]

Handguns must be declared to the USPS and go express mail but FFLs are exempt from this requirement. Rifles and shotguns do not need to be declared except when “required by law” (told this by a USPS employee), if you are selling to a resident of your state you are following the law so a declaration of the contents is not required.

Both Dave P and TarpleyG are right, don’t make it difficult, most people have ZERO knowledge about firearms laws. I cannot count the number of times people have asked me if I had a ATF “permit” or “license” for my Bushy AR-15 and was told I would be going to jail real soon because I didn’t.

 

[cane]

These questions pop up about every 2 weeks, we should make a FAQ for shipping. Just a reminder, Federal Law requires you to notify the carrier, USPS or other common carrier that you are shipping a firearm. Even if it is disassembled and shipped in more than one package, the part with the serial number counts as the "fireatrm".

 

[EOD Guy]

Handguns must be declared to the USPS and go express mail but FFLs are exempt from this requirement. Rifles and shotguns do not need to be declared except when “required by law” (told this by a USPS employee), if you are selling to a resident of your state you are following the law so a declaration of the contents is not required.

Both Dave P and TarpleyG are right, don’t make it difficult, most people have ZERO knowledge about firearms laws. I cannot count the number of times people have asked me if I had a ATF “permit” or “license” for my Bushy AR-15 and was told I would be going to jail real soon because I didn’t.

Handguns can only be mailed between dealers and/or manufacturers. Unlicensed individuals cannot mail handguns. Also, there is no requirement to send them express mail. Most dealers use priority mail but even parcel post is allowd.

 

[waterhouse]

I honestly don't know what the rules are concerning shipping directly to someone's door in state. I think you can do it, but as an FFL I can only ship to another FFL, so I'm not really up on the laws for non-dealers shipping. Whatever you do, find the appropriate laws in writing before you do whatever it is that you do.

Handguns must be declared to the USPS and go express mail but FFLs are exempt from this requirement.

You can't ship a handgun using USPS unless you are an FFL shipping to another FFL(or "between authorized government officials") and you have to fill out postal form 1508 to do so if you are an FFL. Also, there is no requirement to ship express.

edited: EOD beat me to it, and he is correct

Rifles and shotguns do not need to be declared except when “required by law” (told this by a USPS employee), if you are selling to a resident of your state you are following the law so a declaration of the contents is not required.

§ 178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any
common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or
foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other
container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written
notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported
or shipped

Since federal law requires it, it is always "required by law."

 

[Shrimper]

I stand corrected, I was thinking of either UPS or Fedex which have a next day requirement. BTW I have never shipped a handgun, just rifles and shotguns.

 

[waterhouse]

no worries Shrimper. BTW, welcome to the high road.

 

[Dave P]

§ 178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed ...


Note that the original question was about in-state tranfers, so this reg does not apply. And since I just got my law degree from ICS via email, I think I know that USPS is not a common or contract carrier.

Dave

 

[waterhouse]

now I stand corrected. Just out of curiosity, what is the USPS defined as? I have heard that it is not a common carrier, but I have also read that a common carrier is a business that transports goods for a fee. What's the distinction?