Making 30-30 170s out of 150s

[Stevel]

My rifle shoots 170s better than 150s and the preferred load of 170 Remington Core-lokts are scarce as hens teeth. I have 2 boxes of 150s and 2 170s.

I took 2 Rem Core-lokt 150s and 2 170s apart. Powder was the same, and measured 35grains for the 150s & 33grains for the 170s.

One at a time using the same powder that came out of each round, after neck sizing I filled the cases with 33 grains and, seated a 170 grain bullet. (Not the same I had just removed from the 170's). Haven't shot them yet.

Any thoughts? Would you shoot them?

 

[Charlie98]

I'm not sure how you could determine the powder was the same between the rounds. You are likely right... but it is not something I would do. Do you not have any .30-30 brass to just load from scratch?

Personally, I would reload them with MY powder.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

You don't know if the two powders are the same or not. They may be the same but the powder in the 170gr loads may have a coating that slows the burn rate of the powder and the powder from the 150s may not have it. They may look the same in every way.

Unless you call Remington and ask, and that will be really hard to do now that they went belly up, you will never know for sure.

If you put the 150gr bullet powder in the loads with the 170 grain bullets and it is of a faster burn rate then the 170 gr powder is, you may be working towards a disaster.

This is a forum for teaching reloading so we can't really do anything but caution you against doing something like this, usually due to a good reason.

 

[Varminterror]

I’d shoot them, but I wouldn’t waste that much of my life just to re-bullet factory ammo.

 

[Riomouse911]

The guys are right; you’re playing dice under the assumption the powder is the same and the only thing that separates these two cartridges are the bullet weights and powder charges.

Since you’ve already pulled bullets I would look for a 170 gr load with IMR 3031, and pour it from a powder can you know is IMR 3031, and go from there.

It may roll true for you and work out, but your rifle, your fingers, eyes and the rest of you are far too valuable to damage should the dice you’re rolling using the factory powder crap out.

Stay safe.

 

[Dudedog]

Powder is less expensive than a new rifle or an ER visit.
Logic would seem to say if the charge weight is the same the powder is different.
Here is a snip of some data from Hodgdon (they have data for IMR and Winchester powders as well just grabbed Hodgdon to keep the snip smaller) showing charge weights for the two.
170s (roughly) seem to be using about 2-3 less powder than 150s. IF you are a gambler you could take out say 3gr of powder, but if it was me I would feel far safer spending $25 for powder and using known data, I like my fingers, even though they do tend to reach for my wallet to often....

 

[kelbro]

If you had just swapped the bullets between cases, no worries.

If you mixed the powders and then measured out 33g, that's where the uncertainty comes in.

 

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Stevel,

If it was me, I'd just pour the powder out on the lawn & put in some IMR 30-31.
That's what I use with my Lyman 311041.

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Factory loads may have the powder charge adjusted for the particular production run of powder to standard pressure and velocity for the cartridge and bullet weight.

Mass production powders used in factory (or military arsenal loads) may not be the same as any canister powders sold for reloading.
Standard reloading powders are more expensive because the powders are made to be as uniform as possible year to year.

I would make no assumption that the powder used in a factory load for 150 gr .30-30 is the same burn rate or pressure as the powder used in a factory load for 170 gr .30-30.

I agree with AntiqueSledMan: "If it was me, I'd just pour the powder out on the lawn & put in some IMR 3031"

 

[Ru4real]

I’m a big fan of the 170 CoreLokt’s also. But these days I’m shooting Hornady 160gr Leverlutions, pointed rubber tip for a bunch of reasons.

Maybe it’s time to switch, with Remington bankruptcy and all?

 

[Scott.M]

I'd bet a box of doughnuts that you ain't gonna need a hospital visit, new kidney or a new rifle. You'll know after a shot or two.

I would have ZERO qualms shooting them. I know lots of people live their life in fear, but this is far from death defying or stupid.


For the record, I have done similar before.

 

[Stevel]

If you had just swapped the bullets between cases, no worries.

If you mixed the powders and then measured out 33g, that's where the uncertainty comes in.

That's what I did. Powder that came out of a casing went back into the same case.

 

[Stevel]

I’m a big fan of the 170 CoreLokt’s also. But these days I’m shooting Hornady 160gr Leverlutions, pointed rubber tip for a bunch of reasons.

Maybe it’s time to switch, with Remington bankruptcy and all?

Maybe. I'll have to work up a load. If anyone has load data I'd appreciate it as a starting point.

I've tried a couple of boxes of the factory leverevolution. My rifle doesn't like it so much.

 

[Scott.M]

My buddies 11 year old son at the time. He shoots a 6mm Rem 788 and had some factory 100gr ammo. I had a box of 85gr TSX bullets. We pulled the 100's from the factory ammo, and seated the 85's. Here's a little buck he shot with them.

 

[Stevel]

Powder is less expensive than a new rifle or an ER visit.
Logic would seem to say if the charge weight is the same the powder is different.
Here is a snip of some data from Hodgdon showing charges weights for the two.
170s (roughly) seem to be using about 2-3 less powder than 150s. IF you are a gambler you could take out say 3gr of powder, but if it was me I would feel far safer spending $25 for powder and using known data, I like my fingers, even though they do tend to reach for my wallet to often....
View attachment 948663

Part of my thought process was the same as yours. Measured the loads, saw they correlated with the differences in a couple of load manuals. I figured the same principles applied.

 

[Scott.M]

Thank God Elmer Keith wasn't alive today.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I have done much the same thing, with surplus 7.62x54r ammo. Also factory ammo in the same cartridge.

I would have pulled 10 rounds, weighed each charge, and averaged. Reload to average weight, or better yet; drop the charge weight 5%.

I think you are safe, but I would have lowered the charge slightly.

 

[Bfh_auto]

My buddies 11 year old son at the time. He shoots a 6mm Rem 788 and had some factory 100gr ammo. I had a box of 85gr TSX bullets. We pulled the 100's from the factory ammo, and seated the 85's. Here's a little buck he shot with them.

View attachment 948691

You seated a lighter bullet in place of a heavier one. Even though it's a monolithic bullet it's still a big enough difference to drop pressure.
The OP went from 150s to 170s. If it was the other way around. No one would advise against it.
Dropping 3 grains would probably be safe. But we can't say it is.

 

[Charlie98]

I've tried a couple of boxes of the factory leverevolution. My rifle doesn't like it so much.

Much like your OP, my brother's Marlin hated 150's, but really performed with the 170's. Subsequent years of handloading has also proven this out... and now I just use 170grn bullets generically across all of my lever .30's. I've tried some of the newer factory stuff, including Hornady's souped up factory stuff... and I don't care for it. Even their move to pointed bullets (in lieu of FP bullets) has left me looking for other traditional FP bullets. I will tell you I've seen more accuracy differences in the .30-30 than any other firearm I load for just by changing the bullet... that is, for example, from a Speer 170grn to a Winchester or Hornady 170grn, all else being equal. I mean... drastic differences.

Although components are kind of scarce these days, I would not reuse the factory powder. Depending on what you have available... as was mentioned, IMR3031 is my favorite, but I have used H322, H335, and probably one of the Reloder powders in the past with reasonable results.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Stevel...Load data for a .30-30 and a 170 gr Speer Hot-core over 32 grains of W-748 will almost duplicate Remington Core-Lokt 170 gr. A very accurate loading for my Win. 94 .30 WCF.

And I agree. The Remington 170 gr Core-Lokt round is still the round that all others try to match. I have one box left.

 

[Dudedog]

I would have ZERO qualms shooting them. I know lots of people live their life in fear, but this is far from death defying or stupid.

When reloading it is always advised to work up to MAX charges

I don't live my life in fear, but I try to be smart and not take unnecessary risks,
since it is a free country (sort of) everyone can decide what level of risk is acceptable to them.

 

[ojibweindian]

My rifle shoots 170s better than 150s and the preferred load of 170 Remington Core-lokts are scarce as hens teeth. I have 2 boxes of 150s and 2 170s.

I took 2 Rem Core-lokt 150s and 2 170s apart. Powder was the same, and measured 35grains for the 150s & 33grains for the 170s.

One at a time using the same powder that came out of each round, after neck sizing I filled the cases with 33 grains and, seated a 170 grain bullet. (Not the same I had just removed from the 170's). Haven't shot them yet.

Any thoughts? Would you shoot them?

How much more poorly do the 150s shoot? I'd just shoot either "as-is" as long as the rifle flings either weight with enough accuracy to hit the vitals at whatever distance.

If the 150s print like buckshot at 100 yards, give/sell them to someone who wants them.

 

[Charlie98]

I don't live my life in fear, but I try to be smart and not take unnecessary risks,

It's odd... do a poll on how many handloaders here would shoot someone else's mystery-meat handloads, that is to say the only data set available is the bullet weight and how fast they go, and see how many takers you get. Yet, here we are with people saying 'sure, go ahead!' and load a cartridge with no idea of what the powder is. Crazy.

 

[Stevel]

So lets say that the factory loads are pretty much MAX loads,
170s take about 3gr less powder than 150s
So putting a 170gr bullet in the case the 150 came from with the 150 powder charge is giving you something probably 3gr over MAX
Without working up to it I sure wouldn't think 3gr over MAX charge is a good idea or very smart IMO.
Everyone would need to decide for themselves if 3gr over MAX is a good idea after working up to it, 3gr with some data I see would be about 10% over MAX,
and while a 3gr overcharge might be ok in one gun it might not in another.

When reloading it is always advised to work up to MAX charges

I don't live my life in fear, but I try to be smart and not take unnecessary risks,
since it is a free country (sort of) everyone can decide what level of risk is acceptable to them.

As stated in the initial post, I reduced the powder load from the 150s to match the 170s.

 

[Riomouse911]

You seated a lighter bullet in place of a heavier one. Even though it's a monolithic bullet it's still a big enough difference to drop pressure.
The OP went from 150s to 170s. If it was the other way around. No one would advise against it.
Dropping 3 grains would probably be safe. But we can't say it is.

We also don’t know what firearm he’s shooting. If it’s a 788 in .30-30 the action is far stronger than a vintage .30 WCF 1894 so he may get by with an over pressure load with no issues. But with a whole $25.00 invested in a can of 3031 he will have a known powder and reliable data to concoct a load that’s pretty much guaranteed to work safely within the SAAMI max spec of 42,000 psi for the .30-30.

Personally I prefer not to play Like pioneers like Dick Casull and touch off a potential 50,000-60,000 (whatever) psi load two inches from my schnoz in a 1894 rifle like this:



They’re not made for containing or even redirecting a kaboom like most bolt guns are and the shooter will certainly show the effects if a rifle like this fails after adding potentially 50% more pressure than its max designed standard.

Again; people can do what they want with their stuff, more power to them if they find something new that works.

For a beginning reloader who reads a post like this and thinks that it’s a safe and accepted practice to pull bullets from one cartridge and load it in another without understanding the risks involved, beware. When playing with the variety of unknowns like the OP is, the reward for having everything work out will potentially save a few bucks... but the consequences for being wrong can be life changing.

Stay safe.