I got a flintlock rifle (my first) coming for Christmas for me and my daughter . With the powder situation being so crazy , ffffg is kind of hard to get at the moment . I have a few pounds of ffg Goex and wondered if it was safe and effective to use a wood rolling pin and wood cutting board to break the 2f down to 4f for priming. Is there a trick to it ? Is there any risk of going to small ? Should I just wait for 4f to come back in stock ? -Thanks
Making 4f from 2f black powder ?
- Thread starter kyron4
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You could, but try using what you have first. I run 3f in the barrel and the pan and it works fine.
Shanghai McCoy
Member
You could try pouring some of the 2F into a strainer to separate the finer grains.
earlthegoat2
Member
I am aware of a fellow down here who uses 2F for priming his 62 cal Fowler.
This is a high quality kit gun from Tennessee Valley so maybe that makes it more versatile for priming powders. I don’t know if there is evidence of the better flash hole liners and priming pans from better lock makers having these traits.
Having said that, priming powder is the better option and I would think it would give faster ignition.
It won’t hurt to try the 2F.
This is a high quality kit gun from Tennessee Valley so maybe that makes it more versatile for priming powders. I don’t know if there is evidence of the better flash hole liners and priming pans from better lock makers having these traits.
Having said that, priming powder is the better option and I would think it would give faster ignition.
It won’t hurt to try the 2F.
Jim Watson
Member
To say that a friend has crushed his own priming powder with the back of a spoon does not make it safe in all circumstances.
Jackrabbit1957
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You do NOT need 4ffff for priming powder, use what you have in your flask or horn. Think of the British during the years they used the Brown Bess muskets. They carried paper cartridges, when they loaded they bit off the end of the cartridge, primed the pan, dumped the remaining powder down the barrel and rammed the rest of the cartridge with a ball down. No 4 ffff used at all. I used to use it in my rocklocks as well, then figured out that I got more reliable ignition, or so it seemed, by just using what was in the horn. Now I use4 f in my revolvers where it belongs.
I've never tried 2f in the pan but have used 3f most of the time. I suppose you could use a stone mortis and pestle to grind some 2f into a smaller granulation, but i would try the 2f first in the pan. You might be surprised at the results.
Shanghai McCoy
Member
Using the same powder both for charge as well as priming simplifies things. I'd give it a try. 
mmb617
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I use 3f in my four flintlocks (all .50 calibers) for the charge and have used both 3f and 4f in the pan. Both worked but I like to use a pan primer and the 3f doesn't flow through that very well at all, and since I have lots of 4f I just use that in the pan.
You asked if there is any risk in going too small and I can tell you from experience that even the finer than 4f powder will ignite in the pan, but it won't flow very well. That may or may not be a problem depending on what you use to prime your pan. I use one of those brass pan primers with the plunger spout and the really fine stuff won't work with that. It just keeps clogging the tip.
You asked if there is any risk in going too small and I can tell you from experience that even the finer than 4f powder will ignite in the pan, but it won't flow very well. That may or may not be a problem depending on what you use to prime your pan. I use one of those brass pan primers with the plunger spout and the really fine stuff won't work with that. It just keeps clogging the tip.
Get yourself a mortar and pestle and grind up powder by the teaspoon full. Wood ones about $10, marble are $12 and ceramic are $15. Find them on Amazon or E-bay. Or you might also find them at a re-sale shop.
I work with small quantities and that is all I can say for safety. I have ground up Goex, Pryrodex and 777 with out any trouble. Take your time and S L O W L Y apply pressure and a slight twisting. Look every few seconds on how you are doing. I store my 4F in plastic 35mm storage cans.
I work with small quantities and that is all I can say for safety. I have ground up Goex, Pryrodex and 777 with out any trouble. Take your time and S L O W L Y apply pressure and a slight twisting. Look every few seconds on how you are doing. I store my 4F in plastic 35mm storage cans.
The only problem I have found with using very fine priming powder like Swill Null B (which is like flour) is that it sucks up moisture very quickly and becomes soup in your pan. Never had that problem using 3F to prime, and i sure can't tell the difference in ignition.
Ranger99
Member
On occasion I use a nipple primer that
needs finer powder than what I use for
shooting. I'm one of the reckless people
that grind up a tiny quantity of my shooting
powder with a saucer and a spoon.
I only grind up approximately a quarter of
a teaspoon at a time, so if it does pop,
I don't imagine I'll have anything more
than a snoot full of noxious smoke accompanied by the smoke alarm
going WHEEKWHEEKWHEEKWHEEK !
Been doing it since the early 80's and
hasn't popped yet. Of course, it may
well do it next time I do a bit of it up.
YMMV
needs finer powder than what I use for
shooting. I'm one of the reckless people
that grind up a tiny quantity of my shooting
powder with a saucer and a spoon.
I only grind up approximately a quarter of
a teaspoon at a time, so if it does pop,
I don't imagine I'll have anything more
than a snoot full of noxious smoke accompanied by the smoke alarm
going WHEEKWHEEKWHEEKWHEEK !
Been doing it since the early 80's and
hasn't popped yet. Of course, it may
well do it next time I do a bit of it up.
YMMV
My flintlock is an Investarms, which for all intents and purposes is a Lyman GPR as Investarms makes them for Lyman. I was shooting it yesterday with 3f in the barrel and pan with no issues.
hawg
Member
Ignition time will be a little slower with 3F and 2F but either will work. With a good quality lock and 4F ignition will be as fast as a percussion.
Patocazador
Member
I have a custom .45 rock lock that is temperamental when it comes to pan powder. 4F is what works. 3F is iffy and 2F is a joke.
Your gun will dictate what it likes. Try what you have and use finer powder if you don't get good ignition.
Your gun will dictate what it likes. Try what you have and use finer powder if you don't get good ignition.
Jackrabbit1957
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I find 4 f acts like a fuse unless very little is used in the pan, those bigger chunks of powder have more air space around them and I believe it promotes better ignition.
Ugly Sauce
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2fg and 3fg both work well in my Jeager. I do usually use 4fg because as mentioned, it flows best through one of them thar push-primer thingies. I also load my pistols with 4fg, so if I have a cap-n-ball revolver with me I can leave the priming horn at home and just use the pistol flask. If I still used 3fg in the pistolas, I would prime with it, as I can tell no difference between 3fg and 4fg as far as ignition time, in my rifle.
The only time I used 2fg to prime was when I was recently chasing a wounded bear through the brush, (and missed it TWICE) and I was loading directly from my paper cartridges, and I detected no difference, but I had my mind on other things and was not paying attention to ignition time, although it seemed perfectly normal. My Jeager is very fast, and it's kind of like shooting a percussion rifle or even a modern rifle. I certainly did not notice any delay in ignition.
Nothing un-safe about using a spoon to crush 2fg into a finer powder. Unless you smoke a cigar while doing it, it's not going to magically ignite. But, like everyone says, try 2fg in the pan and see how it works for you. Generally speaking, the difference between 3fg and 4fg as far as ignition time goes, is pretty hard if not impossible to detect with human senses. So even if 2fg is slower, you might not know it, or be able to tell.
But having said that, it's true that flintlocks can be quite different depending on the quality of the lock, size of the touch hole, etc. etc. and a lot of experimentation will be in order. At any rate, it certainly won't fail to fire with 2fg, and if it does, or you get a "clack-whoosh-bang" the problem lies not with the powder.
The only time I used 2fg to prime was when I was recently chasing a wounded bear through the brush, (and missed it TWICE) and I was loading directly from my paper cartridges, and I detected no difference, but I had my mind on other things and was not paying attention to ignition time, although it seemed perfectly normal. My Jeager is very fast, and it's kind of like shooting a percussion rifle or even a modern rifle. I certainly did not notice any delay in ignition.
Nothing un-safe about using a spoon to crush 2fg into a finer powder. Unless you smoke a cigar while doing it, it's not going to magically ignite. But, like everyone says, try 2fg in the pan and see how it works for you. Generally speaking, the difference between 3fg and 4fg as far as ignition time goes, is pretty hard if not impossible to detect with human senses. So even if 2fg is slower, you might not know it, or be able to tell.
But having said that, it's true that flintlocks can be quite different depending on the quality of the lock, size of the touch hole, etc. etc. and a lot of experimentation will be in order. At any rate, it certainly won't fail to fire with 2fg, and if it does, or you get a "clack-whoosh-bang" the problem lies not with the powder.
Gator Weiss
Member
Military used single-F in the pan and barrell
Ugly Sauce
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Oh yes, 1fg will work. I believe when the soldiers reloaded their muskets, they put a generous amount in the pan too.
I think, believe, have read somewhere that when a rank of British soldiers fired a volley, about 10% of the muskets would fail to fire. That of course would not be due to the granulation of the powder in the pan, but more from flints that were dull, dirty frizzen, or the flint not set up right in the jaws by recruits or draftees that just didn't "get it" or never did learn the fine "arts" of the flintlock. Or clogged touch-holes.
I think, believe, have read somewhere that when a rank of British soldiers fired a volley, about 10% of the muskets would fail to fire. That of course would not be due to the granulation of the powder in the pan, but more from flints that were dull, dirty frizzen, or the flint not set up right in the jaws by recruits or draftees that just didn't "get it" or never did learn the fine "arts" of the flintlock. Or clogged touch-holes.
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