Making an AR-15 a Deer Rifle...

[wanderinwalker]

TMM,
Though I could just change the barrel on my AR, it is getting a fresh match barrel instead of being turned into some odd test rig. I have my sights set on going back to Camp Perry next year for CMP week, cause it was fun last year. While I hate to set numerical performance goals on things like shooting, I am telling myself I will practice and train and be shooting in the 95-96% range next year like I was two summers ago. My college schedule for the spring will actually lend itself to more practice time than I have had.

jefnvk,
.243 is based on a .308, so I'd have to go to an AR-10 platform. At which point I'd just have it in .260 Remington (AKA 6.5-08) for the better SD and BC of the bullets.

But I fear going to the AR-10 platform negates the handiness and speed of the AR that make me so fond of the sporter version in the first place. My match rifle is a pig (lead sled, sort of) but shoots like a dream.

One of my coworkers pointed out that I could get an Encore with a muzzleloader barrel, a shotgun barrel and a centerfire rife barrel for the cost of some of these AR setups. I thought it about, have thought about it and still think about it as a hunting gun (the Encore). I always end up thinking, "It's cool, but it doesn't load and cock itself."

We'll see. Looks like I might have a venture into handguns for a bit before this rifle thing sorts itself out. Fortunately my .260 Remington Mountain Rifle remains a perfectly useful and accurate hunting rifle, and it's PAID FOR!! :banghead:

 

[jerkface11]

For what B, C or D would cost you could be in an AR-10 (and .308 is plenty good for deer ... and less expensive to shoot for practice than the other 3).

I just have a problem with 7.62x39 in an AR ... but not for any logical reasons ... it just seems wrong. In addition I don't know if its as inherently accurate as .308.

I've seen Krochus print a .33" group with a 7.62x39 using wolf ammo. So i'd say the cartridge is accurate. But i'd be forced to pick the 50 beowulf upper. Load that thing with some 300 grain gold dots and let the fun begin.

 

[444]

>

 

[444]

If it was me, I would use the AR15 in .223 just like many others have done successfully before you.
As American civilians, we are free to use good quality bullets that are tailored to our task at hand.
However, I realize that most Americans think that you need a howizer to kill a whitetail deer. The minimum cartridge needed gets bigger with each generation. We now have people suggesting .50 caliber. Our kids will be using something featuring high explosive incendiary tracer (HEIT) as a minimum. On guided hunts, close air support will be provided with the optional arty barrage if things get really bad with bambi. If multiple deer are sighted, gun ships and B52s are on standby but they will require a trophy fee.

 

[berettashotgun]

Olympic arms manufactured AR barrels in 17 remington and 6mmx45; think it was around 1975 they were made. One of each waiting on the time to get my other hobbies taken care of.

 

[wanderinwalker]

444,
I may do just that next year after I get a chance to work up some loads with the hunting bullets. While it IS legal to hunt with the 77gr Nosler or Sierra match bullets (New Hampshire only stipulates a centerfire rifle and a non-full metal jacket projectile and 5 rounds only for semi-autos with detachable magazines), I just don't have confidence in the terminal performance of said bullets.

As for hunting with howitzers, I too think it's silly the kinds of rounds people use. .300 Win and Weatherby Mags, 7mm Mags, etc. I actually laugh when people come in to work and say the .30-06 is the perfect deer round, especially when loaded with 180s for "hitting power." I've been 20 feet from a couple of different New England moose and have to say I'd just launch a 140 from my .260 at them and then give them more if they're still standing. They're big, but not bullet-proof.

 

[rbernie]

If multiple deer are sighted, gun ships and B52s are on standby but they will require a trophy fee.

"It's a HUMANE kill" - the hunter's version of, "It's for the children".

Last year's camp was memorable for the guy who showed up to hunt black buck from a tree stand in thick brush with his 338 Mag. Dang, I said to him - those things must be armor plated sabre-toothed killing machines.... His reply? "I wanna drop 'em where they stand. Don't wanna have to walk around looking for a wounded animal." Huh? "I want a humane kill." Oh, ok.

I'm convinced that part of the modern fascination with increasing amounts of woods firepower is directly related to the lack of desire to HUNT of most hunters. They want to SHOOT, not to HUNT. Stalking and such is simply too much work.

 

[mr.trooper]

Um, you dont need another upper to make a good deer gun our of an AR-15. I ALREADY IS ONE. Just load it up with a 70+ grain hollowpoint.

Dittoes on above.

"Hunters" aren't hunters anymore; They are sitters. Thats why i make sure to crawl under, over, around and through every game trail i can find. Actualy HUNTING. Who'd a thunk' it?

 

[cracked butt]

"Hunters" aren't hunters anymore; They are sitters. Thats why i make sure to crawl under, over, around and through every game trail i can find. Actualy HUNTING. Who'd a thunk' it?

And just how many deer do you bag walking through the woods sounding like a herd of elephants?

The .223 might work- I know a few not so serious deer hunters who use the .223 in a ruger mini- they claim it works, but I've never seen them shoot any deer, go figure. I would go with a 7.62x39 upper at a minimum, its pretty close to the 30-30 ballistically and has plenty enough killing power.

 

[Red_SC]

If it were me, it would be either the 6.5 or the .458 Socom. Probably the .458.

 

[browningguy]

I've got a .50 Beowulf as a pig gun, but to be honest I'd go with the 6.5 Grndel for deer. Better selection of appropriate bullets, better trajectory out to 150 yards. The .50 will definately do it, but out past 100 yards it's a great big bullet slowing down real fast.

 

[Matt-man]

I had thought of an AR-10. With that route I could even have it made into my beloved .260 later on in life, which would be cool.

If you're a .260 fan, the Grendel seems like the logical choice. It's kinda like a ".260 Junior" that works in an AR-15.

 

[Red_SC]

Don't the .458 SOCOMs use standard magazines?
Which of the other conversions use unmodified magazines?

 

[Zak Smith]

Both 6.5 Grendel AND 6.8SPC use special caliber specific mags.

But you can probably use a USGI mag for 3-4 rounds.

-z

 

[ID_shooting]

I vote for the 7.62x39. Plent of power, good commercial game loads available even more if you hand load. plent of cheap ammo for practice. Since a 30-30 will kill deer all day, so will a 7.62x39.

 

[Zak Smith]

Over on this thread on AR15.com, "SAB" posted that he killed a deer at 300 yards with the 110gr TSX in 6.8SPC with one shot, DRT.
http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=242233&page=16

It's been a while since I posted, and I have a "deer hunting with the 6.8" story to tell. On opening day this year, I trodded out to my favorite spot with my 6.8 with a Leupold MR/T 3-9x at 5:45am.
[...]
The buck is slow-moving, so the shot is an easy one, but he's 300 yards away, and I'm not sure if the 6.8 is up to the task, since I've never shot a whitetail with it. Since there is no wind, the buck is not moving, and I have the rifle absolutely dialed in, I decide that it's worth a try. I slowly drop into a kneeling position, with a monopod under the forearm, and lean against a nearby tree for a rock-solid stance. I crank the Leupy up to 9x, adjust the elevation appropriately, and place the cross-hairs right over the heart/lungs. After calming down and getting my breathing under control, I slowly squeeze the trigger. BANG! The buck takes about five drunken steps and falls over dead! I can't believe it!
[...]

Now, to keep this post on topic, I'll address the effectiveness of the 6.8 round. The load was factory Remington brass, 27.3gr of RL10X, CCI Mil-spec primer, and Barnes TSX 110gr bullet (DISCLAIMER: Don't start at 27.3gr if you duplicate this load - you could blow yourself up!). Average muzzle velocity is 2523fps. At 300yd, velocity is about 1700fps and energy is about 700ft-lb. The bullet entered the chest in the left armpit, destroyed both lungs, but missed the heart, and exited the right shoulder. Shot placement was pretty good, but the damage was pretty substantial. The meat on the right shoulder (exit side) was pretty well ruined.

Any of the calibers discussed in this thread will get the job done - even 223 - if a good bullet is chosen.

 

[FatalMove]

Which states allow .223 caliber for deer hunting.

Which States allow .223 for deer? Im in TN and minimum caliber for deer is .240. If i could use .223 here i darn sure would cause i got an ar-10 with 20" bull barrel in .308 win............lemme tell ya its one heavy s.o.b ...heavier than a Browning Bar !

But it downs Deer like dominoes. with the 3 doe a day limit i need more chest freezers.

 

[lycanthrope]

Isn't there a .243 upper? Does that work on a 15, or is it a special lower?

.243 WSM and .25 WSM uppers from Oly......runs on the AR15 lower.

 

[50caliber123]

I recommend the 7.62x39. Its perfect for medium distances. I ragged on my friend even more than be fore when we got that deer. He hit it with a .308. At a range of 25yards, I have to say, it was WAAAY too much gun. Poor deer! I finished Bambi off with a 7.62x39 round from my sks to the head from about 100ft away.

 

[Sam Adams]

If you're going to switch (i.e. the 70 gr. Barnes TSX isn't enough for you), then I'd go with the 6.5 Grendel. Sure, you'll need some new mags, but you will get a very accurate rifle that can also be used for long range matches. Try that with the 7.62x39 or the .50 Beowulf. As for the 6.8 SPC - OK, it is all the rage right now. It was built as a very much more effective manstopper than the .223, which it clearly is - and, as such, it'll do a good job on similarly sized deer. BUT, the 6.8 is (relatively speaking, of course) a brick vs. the Grendel's sleek jet fighter. It delivers marginally more energy to a target out to about 300 yards, but beyond that the Grendel really shines. Again, to me the biggest advantage of the Grendel is its great BC, which translates into ultra great long range performance. It is a legitimate 1,000 yard gun (if the shooter is up to the task - which I doubt that I'd be). Heck, the 144 grain bullets will outshine even 7.62x51 (i.e. .308) past 500 yards, in terms of energy delivered, with much lower weight per round.

I don't have a Grendel - yet. The only reason is that I've a limited gun budget, and fixing up reliability and accuracy problems with my existing guns, plus practicing with them, take higher priority. However, within 1-2 years I plan on having one and reloading for it.

 

[SomeKid]

FatalMove, there is a bill before the legislature to remove that limit.

SB3445/HB3552

Gotta love the TFA, eh?

 

[MCgunner]

I'll keep my Remington, thanks.

 

[rbernie]

Hunting with ARs is fun. This is my primary woods AR platform; at 7lbs and change with scope and empty magazine and 33" long, it's a very handy and solid package with excellent knock-down...

I'd go with the 6.5 Grendel.

The 6.5 Grendel may be the Hammer of Thor itself at 600 yards but I know very few people capable of making a clean kill at that distance. Not saying that it can't be done, but most people (including myself) simply are not up to that task. And since hunting was the topic (and not LD paper punching), I'll address that aspect of the discussion.

For deer hunting at most realistic distances, a 7.62x39 upper does just fine. I have two AR uppers in 7.62x39 and both will group five shots of my handloads (Sierra 125gr .311 bullets, 25.x gr AA1680, Remington small-primer brass) at an honest inch at 100 yards. I've proven this combination against hogs and deer up to 180lbs or so; large entry and exit wounds with *very* little meat damage. Inside of 200 yards, it just flat works. I've also seen the Sierra 150gr bullets from a 7.62x39 knock some pretty big holes in some pretty tough stuff. 7.62x39 uppers are easier/less expensive to assemble and are cheaper/easier to feed than their 270/6.5mm counterparts. Most importantly to me, 7.62x39 seems to ruin less meat than the higher-velocity 6.8SPC or 6.5 Grendel offerings. MGW five-round and 10-round 7.62x39 AR-15 magazines are appropriate for and work well in hunting situations.

In defense of the 6.8SPC and/or 6.5 Grendel, they offer performance between 200 yards and 300+ yards that is far superior to the 7.62x39, and there are hi-cap (25+ round) magazines available for these chamberings in case the rifle needs to see double-duty as an instrument of social order.

I intend to build a 6.8SPC upper as my next deer rifle to keep my 7.62x39 rifle's company, but that's more of a 'because I can' than it is a sign of 'I need more rifle'. I also intend to build a 458 SOCOM, just because you can never have too many...