Making an automatic weapon

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SSSQ

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Hello all!
I was wondering if it is legal to buy a regular semi-auto rifle and then once you own it, buy full auto parts and replace the old parts creating a full auto rifle.
Is that legal? Do I have to pay a tax stamp?
 
I'm no expert on this but short answer is no. Due to the GCA any weapons made post may 1986 cannot be sold in an FA configuration to civvies.

now, you can take something like an MP5, HK91, or AR and purchase registered Drop in auto-sears, or DIAS. that part is registered, will need to be on paperwork (i think a form 3? not sure) and you will have to pay for a tax stamp. as far as an AR is concerned, i think you need an Full Auto BCG, but i dont know about the HK weapons.

if you do this, make sure the part is registered, which would make it cost in the thousands, not the ones for $120 they sell in shotgun news. those will get you sent to a federal prison.

I highly recommend you use the search function, as I am only going off what i have read. Marines are never wrong, but we could get some bad intel.
 
Yeah, the '86 FOPA (ironically stands for "Firearm Owners Protection Act") closed the NFA machine gun registry, so anything made after then is a no-go. You can still get pre-FOPA registered machine guns legally, but due to the fixed supply, demand has driven prices up to at least $3500-5000 for submachine guns like MAC-10s, and well over $10,000 for select-fire AR-15s.

Start saving your pennies, you'll need 'em. :)
 
FOPA actually did have a LOT of benefits for us.. the problem was 2 liberal politicians slipped in the section that would become 922(0) at 11pm on a friday night as the bill was being voted on, hoping it would be the "poison pill" that would kill FOPA alltogether. Much to their chagrin FOPA passed, conversely the people who figured that 922(0) could be overturned were also wrong and it still stands today. The fact that you can buy ammo mail-order, all of the cheap import Milsurp rifles have been available, and a bunch of other benefits are ALL a result of FOPA. The Downside is, it took NFA weapons out of the purview of everyone, and with the caveat that there are "Cheap" MG's available (Mac-10, STEN, M-76 at around $3-$5K) anything more "intersting" that was Price-wise where those "Cheapos" are now, such a Thompsons' M-16's M-14's and the like are now in the $20K range.
 
Interesting "question" for post #1.......... hmmmmmmmm
Seems kinda fishy to me........
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So what? The answer is the same whether it is his first post or his five hundredth post. Either way, it's a legitimate question. Lots of people see videos on Youtube and hear about machine gun shoots and want to know how they can get one too. Perhaps the OP just saw an ad for something and wanted to know if it was legit.

Even if he were some kind of law enforcement agent fishing around, the code of conduct here, as well as common sense, should prevent anyone recommending anything illegal.
 
Well, it has "protected" the investments of NFA "firearm owners".
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I am personally offended by this, and I know many other NFA owners who are as well.

I have never met a single NFA firearm owner who would not gladly and without a second thought give up any "investment" value in our firearms if the registry would be opened up again.

It would be a very small price to pay and honestly I am sick of hearing stuff like this. You assume that we place money above the Second Amendment and I can ASSURE you that is not correct.

We NFA owners are victims of Hughes as much as anyone else is. In fact we are probably MORE impacted by it since we have shown a desire to own this type of firearm. Even before Hughes was passed machine gun owners were a small part of the gun owning community, and generally considered outcasts by the NRA and most other mainstream shooting organizations.

Now we are told that we probably LIKE having Hughes in place because it makes our increasingly older and more worn out collection worth a few more paper dollars that are worth LESS every year? Hah.
 
Reagan still signed the bill.
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Reagan signed the bill because the NRA specifically asked him to. He did not want to do it, but NRA threw us MG owners under the bus.

NRA at the time was willing to trade whatever it had to to get FOPA signed, and MG owners were fine, since again we've always been considered the outcasts of the shooting community.

NRA said at the time that it would be no big deal to go back and undo Hughes.

Well, you see what that got us. No, Reagan signed it but it was all NRA.

That's why I am an NRA member today, to try to remind them who they are SUPPOSED to represent, all gun owners not just those that want to hunt with grandads shotgun.

Can you see it makes me a little angry even all these years later? :)

It's pretty sickening honestly. If it came up today, with the Internet the way it is, 50% of the folks on THR would own an automatic firearm, maybe more.

We wouldn't be a small percentage of the community and this crap would never happen.
 
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the answer is no... it is illegal to own a NEW full auto weapon. only those registered prior to the passing of that rediculous law can be owned.. that is why legal ones are so damn expensive.
 
just out of curiosity, what did an Uzi, MAC-10 or other "intro" full auto firearm (machinepistol-style) cost before 1986
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Uzi's were in the $500, $600 range depending on who did the conversion.

Mac-10's were $300, 400 tops, again depending on who converted them.

AC556 was around $750 if I remember right, about a $350 premium over the standard Mini.

Registered Receiver AR conversions were all under a grand, I can't remember any specific pricing, just that they were again a $300-$400 premium over standard ARs.

Lightning Links were $45, Drop In Auto Sears were like $150. (going from memory, it's been a long time)

I paid under a grand for a BAR.

Plus the tax stamp of course.

Now, this was all before Hughes was announced. There was a frantic run up to the May cut off date and prices spiked immediately.
 
I may be in the minority among the THRers here when I say that I wouldn't buy an auto rifle or machine gun. Just don't want one. But that should be my decision. Not the government's. Life is fraught with compromises. We pick our battles when we can, but we fight the ones that we didn't choose just as hard.
 
may be in the minority among the THRers here when I say that I wouldn't buy an auto rifle or machine gun.
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I'm sure you are in the majority. It was that way well before Hughes. Most people simply didn't want one. That's the way it should be. But, the small number of us that DID want them were somewhat thrown under the bus at the time.

And now years later to be told that we LIKE it since it made our "investments" go up is pretty danged offensive.
 
SSSQ, answer is NO.

In between all the jockeying among the guys above, I hope the answer to your question didn't get lost.

No, you as an individual cannot legally convert your semi-auto to full auto. It's a felony. Individuals don't get away with it.

A legitimate manufacturer or firearms developer can make full auto firearms as demonstrator models to Law Enforcement or the Military. But the key word here is 'legitimate'. You cannot legitimize yourself by simply declaring it so.
 
A legitimate manufacturer or firearms developer can make full auto firearms as demonstrator models to Law Enforcement or the Military. But the key word here is 'legitimate'. You cannot legitimize yourself by simply declaring it so.
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If you wish to do it legally, get your Type 07 Federal Firearms License (FFL), pay the $500/year Special Occupational Taxpayer (SOT) fee, and $2250/year ITAR registration fee. Then you may build new fully-automatic firearms.

Since you'll be in the biz, you'll also form some sort of corporate entity, file tax returns regularly, get business liability insurance, etc.
 
Bubbles nailed it. The quick answer is no, not for personal consumption. The long anser is yes, but you have to be in the manufacturing industry and there are a lot of complacated steps to follow.
 
doesn't the ATF have to believe that you are going into the business to issue the license?
 
doesn't the ATF have to believe that you are going into the business to issue the license?
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Not really. You can apply for and probably eve get an FFL without going into business. Now, you need to understand that if you do that it's almost a certainty that it will be revoked at the renewal date, and possibly even sooner. And, if you have an SOT on top of that and you've made or obtained anything, you have to destroy those or sell them when your FFL is non-renewed, you don't get to keep any post '86 NFA items.

And, even if you DO get all that done, you will need what's commonly called a "demo letter" to get any post '86 NFA items. This is basically a letter from some LE agency saying that they want you to obtain a dealer sample for them to test or whatever. Here's an example of the demo letter:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-appendix-d.pdf

Truly not worth the hassle or expense and maybe even legal troubles. Just a royal PITA.
 
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Yeah, the '86 FOPA (ironically stands for "Firearm Owners Protection Act")...
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It's not ironic at all unless you have absolutely no clue whatsoever what the '86 'FOPA did besides the effect it had on machinegun registration.
 
The auto-sear was made and registered in the NFA before May 19, 1986, so the auto sear itself is a machine gun. That's how that works when installed in a semi rifle.

Heck, ATF considered a shoe lace with a keychain ring on it a machine gun, so sensibility isn't the question here.
 
Hello all!
I was wondering if it is legal to buy a regular semi-auto rifle and then once you own it, buy full auto parts and replace the old parts creating a full auto rifle.
Is that legal? Do I have to pay a tax stamp?
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As noted above, you cannot make a machinegun.

You either buy a machinegun made before '86 OR you buy full auto parts that are considered a machinegun, made and registered before '86 (like the previously noted Lighting Link or Drop In Auto Sear). Any way you cut it is not cheap, however, so you're not getting off light buy buying said Lightning Link or DIAS...

There will be a few ads for cheap drop in auto sears, supposedly made before '86 and supposedly legal. These are not. These are traps that sucker in the uninformed or those that have a bit of knowledge about NFA stuff and think they are getting a real deal pre '86 legal DIAS.
 
I thought it was legal to buy a registered drop-in auto sear (RDIAS) on an ATF form 4 and install it in an AR-15 to make it full auto. What am I missing here?
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You are not missing anything. RDIAS means it was registered in the NFA books BEFORE the cut off date of May '86. There are only so many of them, and you will pay dearly for one.
 
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