Deavis
Member
Bingo, prove it was the ammo and not a defective firearm.
As do many of the equally American hearts that respect the laws the ATF enforces even if they disagree witht hem.
Making money reloading????
- Thread starter elkhuntingfool
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Bingo, prove it was the ammo and not a defective firearm.
As do many of the equally American hearts that respect the laws the ATF enforces even if they disagree witht hem.
bl4ckd0g
Member
Landscaping has a far lower customer liability compared to ammunition reloading. At the very worst, you may run over a client's foot with the lawnmower deck, or drop a chainsaw.
I work in the oilfield and professional liability insurance can range from $1200 to $15,000 per year for the self-employed wellsite consultants. I'd imagine that there's a licensing and bonding issue that applies to most trades that will lead to lower insurance premiums.
I'm sure that someone who had a career as a police armorer or hunting guide would have lower premiums than someone starting fresh with 6 months experience.
I work in the oilfield and professional liability insurance can range from $1200 to $15,000 per year for the self-employed wellsite consultants. I'd imagine that there's a licensing and bonding issue that applies to most trades that will lead to lower insurance premiums.
I'm sure that someone who had a career as a police armorer or hunting guide would have lower premiums than someone starting fresh with 6 months experience.
freakshow10mm
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I'm a licensed type 06 FFL. I am the owner of Freakshow Bullets and Pucker Factor Ammo. In addition to obtaining a FFL and any other state or local licensing or permits, you also need to register with the US State Department under the ITAR regulations. The fee for this is $1,750 per year. It is mandatory, even if you simply manufacture ammunition or components and do not import or export. The law is very clear that ALL ammunition manufacturers need to register. You need to register even if you aren't making ammunition for the military, as ammunition is defined as a "defensive article" even for civilian sporting use. There is no way around it (except R&D purposes and you have to write a letter requesting the exemption).
The penalty is up to $1 million fine and 10yrs in prison.
Liability insurance starts out at $1200 per year. Then you have to pay federal excise tax (11%) on the ammunition you manufacture, unless you make it for a government agency like local LE. Federal LE still has to pay the tax; only exceptions on the federal level are the Department of Defense and the US Coast Guard- everyone else has to pay.
Loading LE training ammunition is the bulk of my business. There is no excise tax and it's a steady paycheck as they train regularly. I supply a few agencies with training ammunition.
The penalty is up to $1 million fine and 10yrs in prison.
Liability insurance starts out at $1200 per year. Then you have to pay federal excise tax (11%) on the ammunition you manufacture, unless you make it for a government agency like local LE. Federal LE still has to pay the tax; only exceptions on the federal level are the Department of Defense and the US Coast Guard- everyone else has to pay.
Loading LE training ammunition is the bulk of my business. There is no excise tax and it's a steady paycheck as they train regularly. I supply a few agencies with training ammunition.
freakshow10mm
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http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/official_itar_and_amendments.htm
Here is the ITAR regulations. Specifically parts 120, 121, and 123 are specific to whom needs to register. Firearms and parts are Category I defense articles and ammunition/ordnance is Category III defense articles. If you manufacture ammunition for a defense article in Category I, you need to register with ITAR and pay the $1,750 yearly fee. The fee schedule is in 122.3; $1,750 for one year or a "discount of $3,500 for a two year registration.
It's not as simple as getting a $30 FFL anymore.
Here is the ITAR regulations. Specifically parts 120, 121, and 123 are specific to whom needs to register. Firearms and parts are Category I defense articles and ammunition/ordnance is Category III defense articles. If you manufacture ammunition for a defense article in Category I, you need to register with ITAR and pay the $1,750 yearly fee. The fee schedule is in 122.3; $1,750 for one year or a "discount of $3,500 for a two year registration.
It's not as simple as getting a $30 FFL anymore.
SSN Vet
Member
Reckin' Freckin' :banghead::banghead:you trust Ohlin don't you....you ever verified their Q.C.? Talked to a shift supervisor about his "good shop practice"?
"I read in a book somewhere" that people who think "bigger is better" risk learning a hard lesson about corporate cost saving measures.
ohman11
Member
This got me wondering if you have to be licensed to sell cast bullets. Anyone know?
freakshow10mm
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Yes, you do. The ATF considers it to be ammunition and the State Department considers it to be ammunition components.
As above in my posts, you need a type 06 FFL and register with ITAR. It will run you $30 for the FFL and $1,750 for the ITAR registration. The ITAR registration is not optional, it is mandatory, even for a bullet caster.
As above in my posts, you need a type 06 FFL and register with ITAR. It will run you $30 for the FFL and $1,750 for the ITAR registration. The ITAR registration is not optional, it is mandatory, even for a bullet caster.
SSN Vet
Member
I just read through most of that ITAR cr@p and it is so braud that it could very conceivably apply to posting a knock of M193 load on the internet.
I'm curious if Lee Precision is paying reg. fees, as they make machinery for the manufacture of ammunition.
or if any of the little guys out there selling cast boolits (the Bullshop comes to mind) are caughing up $1,750/year.
IMHO, the U.S. State Department rots! It's been a bastion of communist and liberals since the early 20th centruy.
I'm curious if Lee Precision is paying reg. fees, as they make machinery for the manufacture of ammunition.
or if any of the little guys out there selling cast boolits (the Bullshop comes to mind) are caughing up $1,750/year.
IMHO, the U.S. State Department rots! It's been a bastion of communist and liberals since the early 20th centruy.
wuchak
Member
I'm with DEDON45. I'll show anyone how to reload and help them pick some equipment to get started. I have helped three friends get going this way. I won't give my reloads to anyone and I would never consider selling them.
SSN Vet
Member
and one more thing.....
it says manufacture and export....
it say's nothing about selling.
now every guy in the country packing .38 spcl target loads is subject to 10 years in the slammer????
it says manufacture and export....
it say's nothing about selling.
now every guy in the country packing .38 spcl target loads is subject to 10 years in the slammer????
langenc
Member
Hope you have a nice house!
freakshow10mm
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No. If you sell items that others make, you do not register. It also does not include those made for personal, non-commercial use. You as a handloader for your own use are not required to register. Me as a commercial handloader must register.
The industry is split in two about ITAR. Some say it doesn't apply to them (which it clearly does) and don't pay it. A lot of boutique ammo shops and such as well as SOT 2 manufacturers don't pay. Most of the larger companies like Remington, GemTech, Hornady, Dillon are registered with ITAR. I know some large companies that aren't complying with ITAR.
Again, the ITAR does not apply to dealers. I doubt most cast bullet companies, even the larger ones are paying ITAR. Most people don't even know about it.
The general purpose of ITAR was military weapons and ordnance like missile launch systems, explosives, etc. With the wording, the little guys for the civilian market got swept under the rug.
The major key, which the ATF is trying to figure out, is how is the ITAR enforced. The ATF does not enforce it but does mention it to the manufacturing FFLs to look into it. If the State Department is enforcing it for military companies but pretty much leaving the civilian companies alone, then one might be safe from not complying with ITAR. It's sort of like police will usually not bat an eye if you're driving 5 or 10mph over the speed limit, but do 15mph+ over it and they'll enforce the law. The ATF is trying to get the official word from the State Department as to how it effects FFLs for the civilian market, but the bureaucracy is eating at them too. When they know more, there will be an open letter to FFLs mentioning the ITAR ruling.
freakshow10mm
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I abide by all laws pertaining to my business.
Freakshow, how did you find all of this out? The ammo FFL is somewhat common knowledge but I've never heard of ITAR. Does the ATF tell you about it?
What kind of state regs have you had to deal with? Do you operate out of your basement or do you lease/own space in an industrial park? What about State Fire Marshal compliance?
Does SAAMI or NSSF have a brochure or something for this?
What kind of state regs have you had to deal with? Do you operate out of your basement or do you lease/own space in an industrial park? What about State Fire Marshal compliance?
Does SAAMI or NSSF have a brochure or something for this?
freakshow10mm
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No, I learned about it on Silencertalk.com.
No state regulations or local regulations to deal with. The biggest hindrance is zoning. Firearms industry is unregulated in my village so I don't have to worry about that. I can make whatever I want. If I get the type 10 FFL and have my SOT2 tax paid, I can make missiles, grenades, flame throwers, and other destructive devices on my property. The only thing holding me back is money.
I cast bullets in my garage and load ammunition in my office/reloading room on the ground floor in my house. When I begin to make firearms (my FFL is due next week) they will be made between my garage and my office/reloading room.
There is no requirement for State Fire Marshal stuff according to the ATF. They just stated it would be a good idea to write a letter to the local FD explaining the quantities of smokeless powder and primers kept and where they are. I drafted a crude floorplan of my home's ground floor and labeled where they are kept.
To my knowledge SAAMI nor NSSF have any information or literature regarding commercial bullet casting or ammunition loading.
For me, I just needed the FFL and pay the ITAR fee. I have my LLC registered and a state sales and use tax license as well as an FEIN number (you need one for paying the SOT for NFA weapons).
No state regulations or local regulations to deal with. The biggest hindrance is zoning. Firearms industry is unregulated in my village so I don't have to worry about that. I can make whatever I want. If I get the type 10 FFL and have my SOT2 tax paid, I can make missiles, grenades, flame throwers, and other destructive devices on my property. The only thing holding me back is money.
I cast bullets in my garage and load ammunition in my office/reloading room on the ground floor in my house. When I begin to make firearms (my FFL is due next week) they will be made between my garage and my office/reloading room.
There is no requirement for State Fire Marshal stuff according to the ATF. They just stated it would be a good idea to write a letter to the local FD explaining the quantities of smokeless powder and primers kept and where they are. I drafted a crude floorplan of my home's ground floor and labeled where they are kept.
To my knowledge SAAMI nor NSSF have any information or literature regarding commercial bullet casting or ammunition loading.
For me, I just needed the FFL and pay the ITAR fee. I have my LLC registered and a state sales and use tax license as well as an FEIN number (you need one for paying the SOT for NFA weapons).
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