Mall shooting but what is the real issue?

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Eric F

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Every one wants to talk about the shooting and the gun and what ever but there has been mention of but no real coverage for the real Issue.......
Lets go back to the hayday of my life which was the Ronald Reagan years of the White House. I love the man I think he did the country a lot of good concidering the previous years But one of the things he did that was a disservice to most of those involved with this is deinstutionalize the mental health programs in the country. With that being said how does this relate to the mall shooting?
The shooter had mental health issues from what I have heard and read was just about his whole life(which is no excuse for his actions) My oponion is that has the mental institutions not been shut down this kid might have been getting the help he needed instead of getting bounced around foster homes and stuff..........Just some thing to think about.
To the MODS sorry if this has already been covered I have been away for a few days and have not read everything yet
 
Turning out the mentally ill from the hospitals across the nation resulted in two things - more homeless, and less prison space. Can it be said this kid might have been in a state mental hospital, and not in a Nebraska mall killing? Not neccesarily, because nowadays a great many kids are "treated" with mind altering drugs for the "illness" of being a teenager. Does this expunge the shooter of his responability? Absolutely not. Does it mean that drug fascinated "doctors" may have contributed to this? Unknown, as the shooter is unable to be interviewed and/or tested, but I would bet on it.
 
Not gun related, off topic.

This will just start a big thread of people arguing over mental institutions, capital punishment, etc. Take it to APS.
 
Not gun related, off topic.
Click to expand...
Well I would disagree with you just because of the media and others want to make this a guncontrol issue. I see it as a mental health issue However I do agree that It could turn into a mental health and institution debate but capitol punishment? Not too sure about that
But lock it up if it needs to be by all means.
 
Not gun related, off topic.

This will just start a big thread of people arguing over mental institutions, capital punishment, etc. Take it to APS.
Click to expand...

I see someone is aspiring to be a moderator.

I too think this is completely relevant to THR. Mental health and mental health care is always an issue to gun owners.
 
All I got to say on these dumb, young punks doing these shootings is this; Keep it up dumbasses, screw things up for the normal law-abiding folks in this country. Talk about your problems with someone you can love, instead of talking through the barrel of a gun.
 
How the heck did the shooting have anything to do with Reagan? The kid "grew up" in the late '90s and early '00s. There are still mental health institutions all over. If the kid didn't say or do anything to get himself committed, then he wouldn't be committed-be it in 1987 or 2007.
 
Reagan only deinstutionalized mental health. Just background info here. What doing that did was make it harder to point poit "troubled" individuals. Public schools in most areas are now able to recognize problems and deal with them in this kids case he moved around alot so no one that was trained to see indicators of problems really had the time to time do do anything about them. Before the 80's mental health issues there is a chance that he would have beed able to be recognized as a troubled person and get some help.
There are still mental health institutions all over
Click to expand...
I am fairly sure these are no longer institutions. I beleive they are more or less group homes but still lacking the funding of the pre 80's deregulation(if you will)so most of these people are still not getting the help they need.
 
I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but I am kind of tired of people always trying to figure out "what went wrong" with stuff like this.

I have been hearing all these details on the news about this moron and everywhere you go on the net you find more details of his life and his childhood and how troubled he was, wah, wah, wah...

Quite frankly, I could care less about "what went wrong".
I found this quote:
"He wanted to go out like a star," said Andrew Bigler, who described himself as a friend of Hawkins.
That tells me all I need to know.
He was a peice of trash. He murdered a bunch of innocent people who were just out trying to live their lives, spending time with their families and getting their Christmas shopping done.
I have positively no sympathy whatsoever for him.

I just hope that this can be turned into a wake-up call to at least make people realize how defenseless they really are.
My Kahr ain't much against an SKS but it is a far better option than hiding behind a kiosk and trying to shield my loved ones with my own body against bullets that will still shoot right through me.

Instead of trying to figure out "what went wrong" I think we should all try to promote CCW on a national level. That would be a far better use of our time.
 
It is a gun issue. For some time now our kids have been given drugs to adjust their behavior by the system. Every shooting by kids has been after recieving these drugs. Both Prozac and Ritallin affects some kids in a manner that causes then to behave badly.

When the kid goes off he uses a gun and that hurts gun owners. The truth is we need to do something about the system druging up our kids.

jj
 
The real issue isn't about the system medicatiing kids. It's about why kids are so messed up these days and carry out such acts. When I grew up there was none of these mass shootings and we all had guns as young teens. It's a breakdown in family, values, and yes I think violent video games play a part too.
 
I now see another thread covering this topic so if there are any mods out there can fix it please?
 
He didn't have a history of "Mental Illness" he has a history of Depression.

But its clear that there is an attempt going on to blur the line between actual mental illness and simple depression ... I warned about this in other discussions of the Psychiatric industry but one day we're going to find that seeing a doctor for depression or *gasp* being prescribed an anti-depressant is going to be enough to eliminate one's Second Amendment rights.

Read the quote in my sig ... then replace "criminal" with "mentally ill" and you'll see what I'm getting at.
 
The real issue is that a young man who had some problems obtained a SKS rifle and ammunition, carried that rifle concealed into a large shopping mall, opened fire indiscriminately on shoppers in that mall, and then killed himself because he didn't have the stones to face what he just did. He was a criminal. His killing himself saved the tax payers some money and the relentless digging of the feel good press into "why". He's dead and he is where he belongs for his actions.
 
Well, nowadays, if we get accosted on the street, we have to determine a variety of things...

Is this a professional mugger?

Is this a violent nutjob?

Is this a generally nonviolent nutjob who is acting out?

There's the rub...

And it was actually Carter who set the stuff in place for dumping the asylums... Reagan basically just followed through.
 
Just to chime in, we should take the stigma out of treating mental health issues. It's easy to shove the lastest and greatest designer drugs into our troubled kids, but that's a band aid fix.
It's still shamful to admit your having problems in our culture. People are reluctant to seek out treatment for emotional/mental health disorders.
Instead of shoving drugs into people, make it accessible for people to seek out real treatment. Then, the mentally ill can be helped, and the lawful gun owners will be left alone.
 
No problem. One report says AK and one says SKS. One report said both. I honestly don't know which it was. The AK makes more sense.
 
I don't know if this is the "Real" issue or not, but it seems that if you have a 19 yr old son, who is a mental patient, and is depressed and suicidal, that you make 100% sure that your ak is locked up and out of his reach, period. Just like I do not leave any guns freely available to my 7yr. old son. It's not that I don't trust him, it's just that I don't trust him.
 
The real issue is making sure your firearms do not get into ANYONE elses hands but your own....The owner is liable for the gross misconduct of the miscreant if he made his firearm readily available.....
(That ought open a can of worms !!!)
 
in dc st e's went on wednsday having 5000 folks too sick to be on the street to an thursday having 3000 n did those 2000 booted out get fixed overnite? or just get turned loose to hurt themselves and others
 
Were my posts actually deleted in this thread?
It seems like every time I go back to a thread to see if there is any response to anything I say, my post is GONE!
Are these boards just extremely censored, or is there an error, or something else?
Anyone else notice this?
Am I the only one?
I had made a point about how there is a law against people allowing felons in their homes if they own guns, and how the equal precautions should be applied to individuals that are diagnosed as mentally ill, or at a MINIMUM keeping weapons locked up and un-reachable.
That was in this thread right?
Could have sworn Steverino posted "Right On Nightwing" after that.
So lost
 
I survived reaganomics too

I saw a huge increase in homeless crazy people after the RR got elected.

But SF is hardly a Reagan utopia and they have got crazy,stinky,dangerous homeless people all over, the left wingers don't want them institutionalized either.
 
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