Man convicted for removing over 300 oak trees from his property

[Sir Galahad]

Geez, in the time this has been on the board, those oaks could have already been 600 rolltop desks, 10 walk-in humidors, and about 1,000 cutting boards. And the avocado trees would already be providing us with guacamole.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I guess then that there is a semantical distinction - homeowner contracts/association, and this other pseudo-fascist entity."

No, boats, not a question of semantics.

It's a question of law.

 

[CZ-75]

A Dangerous Slum Sprouts in the Desert
Feds try to close village, which sits on sovereign
Indian land. Its founder gears up for
expansion.

By Louis Sahagun, Times Staff Writer

Sorry, but that article proves the opposite of what you think it does.

After reading it, it seems that the people live there because they can't afford any better, which is a by-product of regulations.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Ray,


http://cfpub.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/srchrslt.cfm?start=1

Not sure, but I believe NJ has the highest concentration of contaminated sites per capita in the United States...

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Since I have been farming all my life I guess I don't have a clue about erosion control. All of my ground is hill. I'll try my best to not let it wash away because it is how I make my living. I guess I'm just not smart enough to set down and shut up. California's mud slide problems are mostly related to the type of soil and the environmental conditions. Extreme dry followed by lots of rain will cause slides even in very stable slopes. When soil gets saturated to a certain depth with hard dry underneath it is is very little different from an avalanche. The top heavy layer slips and away it goes. The degree of slope has a lot of bearing but I have seen some four to one slopes slide here. Ground cover and an extensive root system will do more for erosion control than scattered large trees. When i get done planting I'll crank up the 8K and shove out an oak in remembrance of the man."

And this addresses the issue of the soil stabilization abilities of oak vs. avocado how?

I've seen more than my fair share of cultivated fruit trees at the bottom of slope, along with the slope, while farther along the same slope, deep rooted trees haven't moved, nor has the soil surrounding them...

Whatever.

 

[CZ-75]

Grass might not be as ideal as oak trees (though I doubt oak trees work well by themselves), but the Flint Hills of
KS and those in other plains states sure seem to be none the worse for wear from lack of stabilizing trees of any kind.

 

[BenW]

I've seen more than my fair share of cultivated fruit trees at the bottom of slope, along with the slope, while farther along the same slope, deep rooted trees haven't moved, nor has the soil surrounding them...

Uh, do we all even know for a fact that this guy's land even has hills before we get deep into erosion arguments? I didn't see pictures to go along with either article. One of them mentioned he violated hillside erosion ordinances, but the charge doesn't prove his land is on a hill. This is centered in a place called the Ojai VALLEY. His land might be hilly, but it might be flat as a board as well.

 

[Sergeant Bob]

Grass might not be as ideal as oak trees (though I doubt oak trees work well by themselves), but the Flint Hills of KS and those in other plains states sure seem to be none the worse for wear from lack of stabilizing trees of any kind.

Take a look at the levee's along the Mississippi River, covered with.....grass.

 

[gun-fucious]

they used a bulldozer

they did not harvest the lumber
they bulldozed it

no logging operation with chainsaws and skidders

most likely these were 300 saplings and 6 inchers

and it took them 2 years to discover the missing trees

 

[Butch]

Kaddis has maintained his innocence and earlier said prosecutors targeted him because he is Egyptian-American.

From TheeBadone's post on the first page.

I don't know, I think this may be a racist problem.

What the He double hockey sticks has that quote got to do with the story

 

[longeyes]

"After reading it, it seems that the people live there because they can't afford any better, which is a by-product of regulations."

Right, people live in shantytowns because of "regulations." You keep on believing that.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Sgt. Bob,

"Take a look at the levees..."

Care to take us through a dissertation on how levees are built, or would you like me to do it?

I can also include a dissertation on how a levee is NOT the same as a hillside, and finally, why levees are kept tree-free.

 

[CZ-75]

Right, people live in shantytowns because of "regulations." You keep on believing that.

I think I will. People in Silicon Valley are living in garages ($700 a month or so for this) and homeless shelters b/c they can't find decent housing (A good National Geographic article about this a few years ago.). These are families with low six-figure incomes, too.

What do you expect the poorest of the poor to do?

It's all the product of an artificially high cost of living. It's no coincidence that living costs are highest in the most liberal and over-regulated areas of the country.

 

[Sergeant Bob]

Care to take us through a dissertation on how levees are built, or would you like me to do it?

No...just making an observation. Never said it was better than oak trees, avocado trees, rose bushes or chia plants. It was in response to CZ-75's observation...

Grass might not be as ideal as oak trees (though I doubt oak trees work well by themselves), but the Flint Hills of

I can also include a dissertation on how a levee is NOT the same as a hillside, and finally, why levees are kept tree-free.

Please do, it'll give you yet one more opportunity to blow your horn.

Contrary to what you may believe, not every post made, not in total aggreement with what you think, is made in order to elicit a condescending response from you. If you actually have something constructive to add, why not enlighten the rest of us, instead of just making your snide little remarks?

 

[QKRTHNU]

"Chances are the pattern of avacado planting would have covered more of the soil surface that the oak stand."

Bruce,

This has already been discussed.

An avocado tree doesn't equal an oak tree in its ability to hold soil against errosion.

Oaks are deep rooters, most domesticated fruit trees are shallow rooters.

How do you know that those 300 Oaks were necessary to prevent erosion affecting the neighbors properties?

Sounds like Pre-Crime to me.

 

[Shalako]

I think the thread has drifted a tad bit as far as the importance of the trees. In the eyes of the regulatory folks, I can guarantee you the issue of concern is.....(drumroll please)....

Habitat Value

Thats the new catch phrase when nuking the environment or installing a public works project. And as far as letting trees grow on levees, if they are already established (i.e. over 4" in diam) forget about it, they stay. We don't allow them to get established on the levees out here (if at all possible) because when they die, the roots decay and lead to piping (water channels) through the levee and landside boils. Also, some trees have a huge root ball that can displace a large amount of material when the tree falls over. Bad ju ju.

Not trying to be a smarty pants or anything, just FYI.

 

[Sergeant Bob]

We don't allow them to get established on the levees out here (if at all possible) because when they die, the roots decay and lead to piping (water channels) through the levee and landside boils. Also, some trees have a huge root ball that can displace a large amount of material when the tree falls over. Bad ju ju.
Not trying to be a smarty pants or anything, just FYI.

Not smarty pants at all, very informative and makes perfect sense. My guess (just a WAG) was that the root structure of large trees might cause partitioning which might weaken the levee.