Man I've been busy and missed the new variable Super Sniper

[lipadj46]

Wow looks good. The 3-9x mag is a bit low but they made it specifically as a competitor in the DMR military scope role so that is what the military wants.

The specs are impressive...

It has a 30mm tube, 1/10 mil turrets (yes it is a mil/mil scope), First Focal Plane, and mil dot reticle, made in Japan.

All for $600, pretty impressive:

http://swfa.com:80/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P41044.aspx

Here is an initial review buy a guy who knows his stuff:

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=17763

 

[jpwilly]

$599? are you kidding! I'd get a Nikon or Bushnell Elite first.

 

[lipadj46]

Maybe do a little research before you go making claims like that, Super Snipers are good scopes and this one has been in the pipeline for years...

Good luck finding one with those specs (you won't btw). You cannot get those features in any bushnell or nikon and then consider that the glass is on par with the elite and monarch glass and it has better turrets more adjustment etc. The icing on the cake it that is is still made in Japan (which cannot be said for Nikon Monarchs anymore) $600 is a great deal.

Hopefully they will get a military contract and then bring the price down a bit. We will see.

 

[jpwilly]

Really, what claim did I make? All I said is I wouldn't pay $599 for a SS scope. Big deal! $399 YES all day...$499 probably $599 NO!

 

[atblis]

If you're interested in affordable FFP scopes, for $600 you could get a Weaver Tactical. First Focal Plane. Mildot reticle. 30mm tube.

Based on previous Japanese Weavers, the adjustments should be good.

 

[lipadj46]

Yeah the weavers look interesting too, I've always like the durability of the SS's though and hope they keep it up with the variable models. I need to read up on the new Super Sniper scope. It just surprised me as I have been working on replacing my head gaskets on my truck and other stuff and have not paid too much attention to the world of firearms.

 

[FlyinBryan]

ive actually been drooling over this one.



is the supersniper notably better?

 

[FlyinBryan]

oops, i linked the wrong zeiss.

sorry, it is this one.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=157057

 

[jpwilly]

I've been looking at this...Burris Fullfield TAC30 Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 3-9x 40mm Illuminated Ballistic Plex LRS Reticle Matte:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=792770

 

[blackops]

What is first focal plane?

 

[MCMXI]

FlyinBryan, I bought that Zeiss scope recently with the RZ-600 reticle. It'd be tough to find a better hunting scope short of the same reticle in a 6x ... regardless, it's a keeper and I'm going to order another for my new Savage. One comment about the ocular bell ... it's HUGE so you may need to go with medium rings if you want the bolt to clear the bell. My Remington 700 bolt clears the bell (just) but I can't fit a Butler Creek cap on with low Talley LightWeights.

blackops, in FFP scopes, the size of the reticle relative to the size of the target doesn't change as the magnification changes. This is useful since holdovers work (and are the same) regardless of magnification. With the more common SFP (second focal plane) scope, the size of the reticle increases relative to the size of the target as the magnification increases.

 

[Maverick223]

What is first focal plane?

The reticle changes thickness in relation to the magnification...allowing you to utilize ballistic compensating/ranging reticles at all magnification levels. The only disadvantage is that the reticle does not remain fine as you crank up the magnification. It is a pretty distinct advantage for a tactical scope, but generally comes at a premium due to the higher manufacturing costs.

 

[lipadj46]

I've been looking at this...Burris Fullfield TAC30 Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 3-9x 40mm Illuminated Ballistic Plex LRS Reticle Matte:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=792770

Probably yes but it just came out so we will have to wait and see. I'm not sure how much adjustment the new SS has but the original model had something like 120 MOA and solid repeatable turrets. The only thing that it looks like is lacking on the new SS is parallax adjustment, but you could argue it is not needed in a 3-9x.

 

[MCMXI]

blackops, one advantage of SFP scopes over FFP scopes is that SFP scopes can be "calibrated" so that the stadia line up very nicely with logical holdover values at a specific magnification. This makes SFP scopes more flexible for different rifles, different calibers and different loads and it makes them particularly useful for hunting where it's not practical to be making windage/elevation adjustments on the scope itself.

For FFP scopes, the holdover values are constant, so if your particular load doesn't line up conveniently, then there's nothing you can do about it short of trying to tailor your load for the reticle but that'd be ridiculous. For example, on a mildot reticle, at 100 yards the dots are 3.6" apart on the target. At 200 yards they're 7.2" apart. So let's say you have a FFP scope with a mildot reticle and you use a 200 yard zero. Now you want to use holdovers to engage a target at 350 yards. At 350 yards, the distance on the target between the mildots is 12.6". Is your load (bullet drop) going to line up nicely with your reticle so that you can holdover using the first dot, the second dot, the third dot etc. If your target is 1 MOA then good luck with that.

Just something else to think about.

 

[lipadj46]

If you're target is 1 MOA then good luck with that.

Well it can also be argued that that is what turrets are there for.

 

[EdLaver]

I'd get this model SS scope if it was 4-16x, wonder if the millett TRS-1 compares to the SS. I have never seen anyone give a review comparing the two.

 

[lipadj46]

The SS just came out, the FFP design, 30mm tube, and 1/10 milliradian turrets are what sets it apart. There are no other scope under $1200 that compare to it as far a combination of features go. The next closest thing would be a nightforce maybe. The new Weavers are FFP and side focus and higher magnification so check those out.

I'm not sure if they are working on other powers they went 3-9x to directly compete for the DMR scope contracts like the Leupold mk4 MRT.

 

[blackops]

Thanks for the info. I take it that SFP scopes are better for hunting and FFP scopes are better for a tactical application.

 

[Maverick223]

Thanks for the info. I take it that SFP scopes are better for hunting and FFP scopes are better for a tactical application.

That's pretty much true. Like 1858 said you can get a ballistic reticle (like the Rapid Z 600/800 on a Zeiss Conquest) and tune the magnification to the load/cartridge that you want to use. Not necessary for target shooting applications, but very useful for hunting at somewhat long distances for the quick holdovers that are available. For tactical/target use it is better to be able to use all magnification levels and be able to utilize the holdovers as needed making the FFP useful.

 

[lipadj46]

Thanks for the info. I take it that SFP scopes are better for hunting and FFP scopes are better for a tactical application.

Yeah FFP are really for the military or SWAT shooter who needs their reticles to scale with increasing magnification. For most other purposes though SFP scopes are best. FFP definitely have the cool factor though and I would like to have one just to have one.

 

[LemmyCaution]

If your target is 1 MOA then good luck with that.

If you're calculating in MOA you shouldn't be using a mildot reticle. Nor should you be using the American measurement system. All the complexity you meander off into in your post goes away completely if you work in angular mils and system international units.

You're zeroed at 200m and your drop at 300m is 1.2mil? Turn your elevation knob 12 clicks, or hold over 1.2 mil. Your drop at 500m is 4.6mil?Turn 6 clicks and hold over at the 4th mildot.

Using this method and an FFP reticle you can employ the reticle for range finding at any magnification, calculate drop and shoot without going through the mental contortions necessary when using the insanely silly American measurement system.

As far as mildots being "3.6" apart at 100yd," well, they're 100mm apart at 100m, 200mm apart at 200m, etc ad nauseam. With 1/10mil turrets, 1 click = 10mm at 100m. With this kind of simplicity, the attitude of "I don't trust anyone who uses the metric system" is like saying "I don't trust anyone who uses a firearm. Throwing rocks at each other should be good enough for anyone."

 

[Maverick223]

If you're calculating in MOA you shouldn't be using a mildot reticle. Nor should you be using the American measurement system. All the complexity you meander off into in your post goes away completely if you work in angular mils and system international units.

Some people actually like the SAE system, and use MOA/MOA...and I think '58 is one of them IIRC.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

What about the Falcon Menace scopes, their about $450, does anyone have any experiene with these?

 

[lipadj46]

What about the Falcon Menace scopes

I've heard good and bad things, more good than bad though. They are made in China (with final quality control done in the UK) so you have that wild card aspect thrown in. The one I fiddled with had mushy turrets but the glass is decent but probably not up to the Japanese optics. I think though all in all they are a decent scope but don't have a great deal on internal adjustment when compared to some others (75 moa vs 100-125). Not a bad scope for $425, I like the Super Snipers though but that is just my preference as I have owned one and it was bullet proof and they are all .50 BMG rated (I had mine on a .50 BMG).

Here is a good review of a FM scope:
http://www.snipercentral.com/menace4.htm

and I think '58 is one of them

He just does not like to admit there might be some better systems out there than his SFP mil/moa mk4 I think it's great that SWFA actually went the extra mile and went with 1/10th milliradian turrets it's nice to have some options.

 

[Maverick223]

I think it's great that SWFA actually went the extra mile and went with 1/10th milliradian turrets it's nice to have some options.

I agree...and personally prefer Mil/Mil. Looks like a fine scope...but we must also keep in mind that a fixed scope is typically more durable than an adjustable magnification model, especially one that is FFP...which makes me more eager to find out how well it performs. I don't think the current line of SS are great scopes but they aren't that bad for the money and offer a pretty good collection of features, so I look forward to hearing more about the new model.