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Man survives 21 gunshot wounds: Placement, placement, placement!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Yoda, Aug 9, 2010.

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  1. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record

    The gunman who survived at least 21 bullet wounds in a Harlem shootout with cops probably broke a record, a forensic expert said Sunday.

    "I would say more than 20 gunshot wounds is a record," said Dr. Vincent DiMaio, 69, a forensic pathologist and author of "Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques."

    "Of course, the real issue is where you get shot," he added. "One bullet can kill you, but believe it or not, a body can survive a lot of bullet wounds."

    Angel Alvarez, 23, shot Luis Soto of the Bronx before falling in a hail of gunfire in a wild shootout with NYPD officers early Sunday, police said.

    Alvarez's sister, Kimberley Creer, 29, said doctors confirmed they had removed at least 21 slugs from his body.

    "That's ridiculous," she said. "In the arms, legs, abdomen, jaw. ... He's doing all right. He's talking."

    Alvarez's lawyer, John Carney, put the number of shots at 23, but said his client was "awake and responding."

    "He had chest and abdomen shots," Carney said. "It's a miracle. They missed the heart and major arteries."

    DiMaio predicted that Alvarez would survive since the bullets missed vital organs and didn't cause excessive bleeding. The risk of infection remained the gunman's biggest hurdle.

    "Listen, if you make it to thehospital and you can talk, 99% of the time, you'll make it," DiMaio said. "He'll survive."

    DiMaio said the most gunshot wounds he'd ever examined in one person was 17, in aTexas man a decade ago. "Theguy was complaining about thepain," he said. "I told him, 'You're lucky to be alive.'"

    In New York City, Joseph Guzman was struck at least 11 times in the 2006 police shooting that killed Sean Bell. Guzman received $3 million in a settlement with the city.

    Here's the links (corrected):
    http://www.newser.com/story/97637/gunman-shot-21-times-lives.html
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/yahoocanada/100809/canada/harlem_man_survives_being_shot21_times_by_nypd
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upsho...rlem-man-survives-being-shot-21-times-by-nypd


    ================

    'nuf said....

    - - - Yoda
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  2. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

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    God wanted this guy to survive 21 gunshot wounds. It happens. Get over it.;)
     
  3. alohachris

    alohachris Member

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    gawd wanted him shot 21+ times because he loves him? Riiiiiiiiiiight... makes complete sense.
     
  4. JoeMal

    JoeMal Member

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    That's amazing

    God forbid I ask what caliber?
     
  5. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Good grief! Even Cole Younger only had 11.

    According to Mass, they are using 9x19 Speer Gold dot

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob93.html

    They'd be better served with magnum wheelguns.
     
  6. JHansenAK47

    JHansenAK47 Member

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    I wonder if he is going to be partially crippled. A lot of potential for nerve, tendon and joint damage.
     
  7. Enachos

    Enachos Member

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    ^^^ What he said.

    I imagine there's gonna be some kind of damage to parts of the body. He may have survived but I doubt he'll be able to function properly.

    But what do I know... I've never been shot... thankfully!
     
  8. wow6599

    wow6599 Member

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    I can hear it now........."should of used a 40" or "wouldn't of lived if it was a 45".
     
  9. JoeMal

    JoeMal Member

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    That's why I debated even bringing it up lol
     
  10. CoastieShep

    CoastieShep Member

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    What a waste of life. Too bad he didn't die. Would've saved the tax payers a lot of money if he'd died.
    Never would've taken than many rounds if they'd been using .40s. Sorry, couldn't help myself.:neener:
     
  11. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    Don't be an ass.

    Anyways, I do wonder what caliber it was. Any to me, more important that what caliber, I think it goes to show that having enough rounds on your and in your weapon is really key. Nothing quite like running out of rounds on your massive "caliber that start's with a 4" gun only to find that the BG is still kicking.
     
  12. Sgt_R

    Sgt_R Member

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    But did it stop the threat?
     
  13. Chevyguy85

    Chevyguy85 Member

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    As far as i know of Orlando PD carries glocks now, I know the Orange County Sheriff's office has gone to glocks as well. Source is out of date. If they were missing COM that much with 9mm then going to magnum wheel guns wouldn't help them very much, in fact would probably make shot placement even worse
     
  14. kis2

    kis2 Member

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    the link took me to a medal of honor recipeint, so I didn't look at the full story to see any kind of timeline but...

    no time for a rifle I assume?
     
  15. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    OOPS... here's the correct links

    Link corrected on original post... and some more added...

    - - - Yoda
     
  16. Blakenzy

    Blakenzy Member

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    In other words pistol caliber is of little significance if you get poor hits.

    Round count is of little significance if you get poor hits.

    Good hits are hard to come by on a moving, shooting target.

    BTW, 21-23 hits...how many complete misses? Total shots fired... 50+
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  17. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    Here's another version

    Yes, one apparently can be shot 21 times and live to tell the tale--not that it's the sort of achievement that anyone is going to run out to emulate. Over the weekend, a Harlem man survived what some physicians are calling a record number of bullet wounds and is now recovering at a New York City hospital.

    Early Sunday morning, a fight broke out at a party in Harlem that spilled into the street. According to the police officers who arrived at the scene, Angel Alvarez was seen fatally shooting Luis Soto. When Alvarez turned his weapon on the officers, a fierce firefight broke out. More than 50 bullets were fired, almost all of them by the police. At least 21 of those bullets pierced through Alvarez's body.

    Luckily for Alvarez--whose extensive criminal record includes at least eight prior arrests--none of the bullets hit his brain, heart, or major arteries. His family members say that even though his arms, legs and torso were riddled with ammunition, Alvarez is "doing all right," is talking and it's believed he'll survive. A forensics expert told the New York Daily News' Simone Weichselbaum and Virginia Breen that Alvarez is likely the new holder of a somewhat dubious record.

    "I would say more than 20 gunshot wounds is a record," Dr. Vincent DiMaio, a forensic pathologist who specializes in gunshot wounds, told the paper. "Of course, the real issue is where you get shot. One bullet can kill you, but believe it or not, a body can survive a lot of bullet wounds."

    Meanwhile, some locals who witnessed the gunfight that left six people, including two cops, wounded are disputing the NYPD's version of events, saying that the officers -- some of them plain-clothes cops--never identified themselves as law enforcement personnel.

    "Never once did you hear, 'Freeze,'" Shariff Spencer told the New York Times' Trymaine Lee and Colin Moynihan. "Never once did you hear, 'Stop.' Never once did you hear, 'N.Y.P.D.'"

    Through a spokesman, the NYPD has insisted that the use of force was justified, saying that Alvarez fired upon the officers. It's been reported that the incident began with Alvarez and Soto arguing over a woman.


    Here's the link:
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/yahoocanada/100809/canada/harlem_man_survives_being_shot21_times_by_nypd
     
  18. cajun47

    cajun47 member

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    sometimes i feel like replacing my ccw glock 19 with two .357 mag revolvers.
     
  19. wulfhart

    wulfhart Member

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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  20. rondog

    rondog Member

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    I wonder how many pass-throughs there were. Sounds like panic shooting to me, they need to slow down and aim a little.
     
  21. hnk45acp

    hnk45acp Member

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    He killed a guy a guy with his 38 special before the cops got there and one of the cops managed to shoot another cop. Luckily the cops vest stopped the bullet

    from the NYPost
    A bullet likely fired by police killed a man whose struggle with an acquaintance over a gun touched off a shootout with officers and the man he was fighting, according to autopsy and ballistics reports Monday.
    Luis Soto, 22, was hit five times and died from a wound to the torso that pierced his organs, according to Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner's office. A single bullet recovered from the body was the shot that killed him, Borakove said.
    Police said the recovered bullet was consistent with those used by the officers. It's not clear whether any of the other four gunshot wounds were inflicted by the acquaintance, Angel Alvarez, 23. The weapon Alvarez had was fired four times; it's unclear who fired the rounds.

    Luis Soto

    The violence erupted around 3 a.m. Sunday during a block party in Harlem that ran hours past its scheduled end. Police from several units, three officers in plainclothes and several others in uniform arrived from a separate shooting farther north to help disperse the crowd.
    At that time, Alvarez ran from a nearby playground north to two parked cars on Lenox Avenue, where Soto was standing, police said. According to witnesses, the two had a long-standing beef, possibly over a woman, and Alvarez punched Soto and knocked him to the ground. One witness told police Soto pulled a gun from his waistband, and the two men struggled with it. One or possibly two shots were fired, though it's not clear who fired the weapon or if both men had guns, police said.
    Alvarez got up and took off, firing more shots toward an officer in uniform, who squeezed off two rounds in return. One of the officer's shots hit plainclothes officer Michael Tedeschi in his bullet-resistant vest, police said. Tedeschi, 36, was expected to fully recover.
    Meanwhile, three plainclothes officers nearby fired 44 times.
    Another officer, Alfredo Vargas, 28, was grazed in a hand and was expected to be fine. Three other bystanders were also hit by bullets and were expected to recover. Alvarez had 21 gunshot wounds and was in stable condition. It's not clear how many bullets that hit him were fired by police.
    Officers recovered one weapon, a .38 revolver, from Alvarez and four bullets had been fired, police said. A host of casings and fragments were recovered.
    The officers involved in the shooting were on desk duty pending both an investigation and departmental review. Under common procedure, the Manhattan district attorney's office will first decide whether to bring the case before a grand jury, and then a shooting review board will look into the incident.
    Police spokesman Paul Browne said the department would "await our standard reviews the department conducts for all police-involved shootings," before commenting on whether the shooting appeared to be within department guidelines.
    An officer is allowed to use deadly force when faced with an imminent threat of injury or death.
    Police are investigating the relationship between Alvarez and Soto and what started the fight, and are looking into the gun, which had been purchased in Georgia.


    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...shootout_SeXgUyJWBvmBqfvMA1nC6I#ixzz0w9Wg3sPk
     
  22. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    Just goes to prove what I've always said. Practice, practice, practice.
     
  23. Hk Dan

    Hk Dan Member

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    Ah, but if he were hit with a .45 ACP he'd have just vaporized in a pink mushroom shaped cloud after flying back 15 feet and hitting a wall 8 feet off the ground...<heh heh heh>
     
  24. Old Guy

    Old Guy Member

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    Still 226 Sig's, I know that for sure! Quite a few years ago I suggested they go to WW +P+ 127g Ammo. The Range Master took the suggestion, they have had good results in shootings.

    Mind you the MP 5 Sub Guns were battered to bits with the +P+ rounds, they changed the sub gun ammo. Going to Glocks? The Range Master hated them.

    Orange County Sheriffs Office, Glock 45s.
     
  25. Old Guy

    Old Guy Member

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    I posted twice, sorry.
     
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