Man who shot Alzheimer’s sufferer won’t be charged
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Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
Good read and I agree with your conclusions. We had something similar here in that the good guy's decision to leave the building thrust him into a situation where he had to shoot. 
There's the point of failure. The decision to go outside to confront the person at the door with the assumption you might be at risk and needed to arm yourself. I understand that if you carry all the time you'd be armed and that you'd put your sidearm on if you were going outside, but to go out with a potential threat present is poor tactics.
LemmyCaution
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Um, since when is Joe Citizen in any position to be issuing 'commands?' And how does the failure to obey such commands from J Random Authoritarian justify homicide?
4thPointOfContact
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Absolutely, no citizen without benefit of government authority has any authority to command anyone to do anything. The authority of government must be preserved at all costs.
The citizen made a mistake in identifying a threat, but I'm not going to hold a double standard and forgive professional law enforcement for the same thing while holding the average man to a higher standard. If an officer can cut down a 70-year old man in cold blood as he reached for a cane to help himself walk, then in the interests of justice I'm going to have to give the same consideration to a homeowner awakened in the dead of night.
The citizen made a mistake in identifying a threat, but I'm not going to hold a double standard and forgive professional law enforcement for the same thing while holding the average man to a higher standard. If an officer can cut down a 70-year old man in cold blood as he reached for a cane to help himself walk, then in the interests of justice I'm going to have to give the same consideration to a homeowner awakened in the dead of night.
LemmyCaution
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I disagree. Law enforcement officers have certain authority to issue specific, circumscribed commands in the course of their duty as a matter of the laws we consensually agree to live by in a constitutional republic.
Where LEOs stray outside those confines, they should have the book thrown at them, along with the overzealous citizen. I'm arguing for tighter standards for all use of force, not for differential leniency for the state.
'He had something in his hand and refused to obey commands' doesn't rise to the level of an articulable threat, in this reasonable person's opinion.
SFreed
Member
As someone who has watched his Dad progress through this horrible disease, I wasn't going to comment on this. I only hope that the man doing the shooting (a veteran of the Iraq war) spares some thought for the man he shot (a retired Air Force Lt.Col), whose only crime was being confused, and I imagine afraid.
HeadJunter
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Our Castle Doctrine has been well established in both caselaw and statutory law for over 100 years. In practice, breaking and entering or any seeming attempt thereto in Georgia places the intruder in the position of being shot with legal justification.
That doesn't mean it's moral or ethical or smart to do so. As I said in the article, I expect Mr. Hendrix will pay for those shots for the rest of his life. I also think that if it had been a serious intruder, Mr. Hendrix placed his fiancee in more danger by going outside than by waiting for the authorities.
Note that with regard to (3), burglary is a felony.
IANAL, etc.
That doesn't mean it's moral or ethical or smart to do so. As I said in the article, I expect Mr. Hendrix will pay for those shots for the rest of his life. I also think that if it had been a serious intruder, Mr. Hendrix placed his fiancee in more danger by going outside than by waiting for the authorities.
Note that with regard to (3), burglary is a felony.
IANAL, etc.
I don't know that I agree with the idea of never going outside. I can imagine some scenarios where it would be better to go outside.
That being said, situational awareness is key. If he had had a flashlight, he might not have felt as threatened. Being able to see what the threat is is an important part of determining if it really is a threat.
Other tools might come in handy too. Once you've identified a confused old man, having some sort of stick would be helpful if he gets aggressive. So long as he isn't waving a gun around, I'm reasonably certain I could keep a confused geriatric at arms length with a baseball bat or something similar without hurting anyone any worse than a stern poke in the chest, if needed.
As far as issuing commands goes, I wonder if that took the form of "stop advancing on me", or "turn around and place your hands on your head". One has merit, the other doesn't.
So, more tools in the tool box would have helped this situation immensely. Outside lights, windows, a flashlight, would all have helped to identify the situation, and better tools would have helped keep everyone safe if needed. No one needed to die here.
That being said, situational awareness is key. If he had had a flashlight, he might not have felt as threatened. Being able to see what the threat is is an important part of determining if it really is a threat.
Other tools might come in handy too. Once you've identified a confused old man, having some sort of stick would be helpful if he gets aggressive. So long as he isn't waving a gun around, I'm reasonably certain I could keep a confused geriatric at arms length with a baseball bat or something similar without hurting anyone any worse than a stern poke in the chest, if needed.
As far as issuing commands goes, I wonder if that took the form of "stop advancing on me", or "turn around and place your hands on your head". One has merit, the other doesn't.
So, more tools in the tool box would have helped this situation immensely. Outside lights, windows, a flashlight, would all have helped to identify the situation, and better tools would have helped keep everyone safe if needed. No one needed to die here.
kitsapshooter
Member
I do not need government authority to issue commands. Just come in my yard uninvited and see if I call the gooberment to get permission to tell you get off.
Or, "Show me your hands!", "Get off my porch!", "Get away from the door!", "Don't touch the door!", or any number of other "commands" you'd yell at someone if you had the feeling they were a threat.
We're never going to know what went on once the guy went out the door.
We're never going to know what went on once the guy went out the door.
armoredman
Member
Sad day. My wife's father died of that disease, and a good friend is going through that hell right now. The shooter may have been completely in the clear, but, as stated, he will live forever in a hell of his own making, if he is, indeed, a moral man. I sincerely hope he doesn't end up taking his own life for it.
macadore
Member
For someone with advanced alzheimer's it wouldn't matter what the commands were. He couldn't process the information well enough or quick enough to respond in a timely manner. I've lost several relatives to alzheimer's. They're pretty helpless.
JustinJ
Member
When Joe Citizen is on his own property and an uninvited intruder refuses to leave and stop approaching in a way perceived as threatening. "Leave" and "don't come any closer" are commands.
Godsgunman
Member
Sad, very sad. As the article stated, if he's a moral man he could very well beat himself up for the rest of his life and possibly be in a mental "hell" until he finds forgiveness. That being said he made a very egregious mistake by going outside. Obviously the article is very limited with its details but one would reasonably think that if this elderly man posed a threat to begin with then the right thing to do would be to call the police and keep the locked door between yourself and the unidentified aggressor. If, however, he identified the man as elderly and possibly confused then I can understand opening the door and stepping outside to assist or find out what the problem is. Again though the latter wouldn't indicate being fearful for one's life. It's a sad situation all around but one that seemingly could have been easily avoidable.
Deltaboy1984
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Prayers for all involved. This is a Bad Deal.
RobNDenver
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The prosecutor is copping out in this case and should be ashamed. Killing an Alzheimer's sufferer because he wouldn't comply with verbal commands is murder, and I know that because my mother suffered from this dreadful condition for years before she succumbed to it.
Deltaboy1984
Member
He followed the Law for his state. A DA will not go out on a limb on a crusade case like this.
There is no justification. That is why I do not knock on strangers doors at night for ANY reason. In some places they can gun you down and get away with it because there is not enough evidence to prosecute ie dead men tell no tales. Sadly that is why some people choose to take matters into their own hands to get justice where no justice can be obtained through legal means.
Dementia kills the patient and woumds everyone they know. My frail mother was 77 when she broke a male patient's arm because she "didn't want ant GD men" in HER house - in the common hallway of the best "memory care" facility in town.
Realizing that this is a news story, and it's been condensed to fit print and audience attention span limitations, we probably don't have enough here to pass judgement on anyone. Many dementia patients have extreme personality changes and mood swings. My dear sweet grandmother would have won a Navy swearing contest toward the end of her days, and my mother spends all her awake time rolling up and down the halls, clapping to a tune only she can hear. Sometimes Death is a blessing.
From this article, we don't know the shooter's mindset. We don't know how long this incident went on, if the local law enforcement had been called, or a lot of other factors that could have influenced Hendrix' decisions. Hindsight is 20/20 vision, but we don't have the benefit of hindsight here - we were not there to see it happen and reflect on what we saw.
Tragic for all involved.
Realizing that this is a news story, and it's been condensed to fit print and audience attention span limitations, we probably don't have enough here to pass judgement on anyone. Many dementia patients have extreme personality changes and mood swings. My dear sweet grandmother would have won a Navy swearing contest toward the end of her days, and my mother spends all her awake time rolling up and down the halls, clapping to a tune only she can hear. Sometimes Death is a blessing.
From this article, we don't know the shooter's mindset. We don't know how long this incident went on, if the local law enforcement had been called, or a lot of other factors that could have influenced Hendrix' decisions. Hindsight is 20/20 vision, but we don't have the benefit of hindsight here - we were not there to see it happen and reflect on what we saw.
Tragic for all involved.
MrMarty51
Member
I pray for the young man that did the shooting, that He will find that forgiveness and peace that only God can give. AMEN
The HO made a bad mistake of going outside to confront the dead guy.
He should have called the cops so they could do the shooting so that we could cop bash about it.
The bottom line is someone who appears to be threatening to an armed person has a fair chance of being shot.
He should have called the cops so they could do the shooting so that we could cop bash about it.
The bottom line is someone who appears to be threatening to an armed person has a fair chance of being shot.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
hso hit the nail on the head here:
As for what happened after that, everyone on either side is speculating wildly and we cannot pass judgment based on what we imagine we think we know maybe probably must have happened.
As for what happened after that, everyone on either side is speculating wildly and we cannot pass judgment based on what we imagine we think we know maybe probably must have happened.
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