Marine Corps possibly looking for new caliber

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One of the main reasons the Army uses 5.56 is because the girls are in it now, don't wan't to scare them with a hard hitting round! The 5.56 is a decent round that will kill most of the time but there are better options, but it sacrificies penetration and stopping power for carrying capacity.


I'm hoping you just forgot to add the smiley icon denoting sarcasm
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No sarcasm smiley was needed by Shep19. The military brass indeed says that one reason to stay with 5.56 is the fact that they need a weapon which can be handled by girls and boys of "small stature". It's in the article cited by the OP to start this thread clear as day. Makes sense. Maybe he shouldn't have said "don't want to scare them," but the fact remains that the top brass recognizes the physical limitations of having women in the service and its effect on the entire fighting force.
 
One of the main reasons the Army uses 5.56 is because the girls are in it now....
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I guess that they somehow predicted that very accurately when they first introduced the round to the troops back in the sixties.

"We want it to have a mild recoil for the females who will be using it decades from now...."
 
Current rounds are used not only by the US, but other NATO nations
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Our allies are also beginning to realize the inadequacy of 5.56x45mm as a general-purpose infantry cartridge based on their own experiences on the battlefield:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/btb.pdf
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/btbjdw.pdf

5.56mm is the .380 ACP of infantry cartridges - marginal to inadequate general-purpose performance. While Mk318 is an improvement it's just another band-aid for 5.56.

6.8x43mm is a substantial improvement with very little increase in recoil.
 
Every week we have to rehash this?
No matter what - ya gotta' connect the dots, i.e. you have to hit the target.
Nice PDF's Shawn, I did find some discrepancies - but they were good reading.
A 6x45 might be in the works. For me.
I just need advance notice before the armies of the world change so I can save up funds for all the neat dodads I must have to be cool - again.:p
 
The .243 will NOT fit in the AR frame, you have to use the AR-10 frame, it's the same shell casing as the .308 necked down to a 6mm bullet.

My 'girls' are the very best in the world at what they do. They do more to keep you safe from day to day that the average combat arms soldier. And if you call them girls, they will be happy to explain to you that they are non-commissioned officers in the U.S. Army. NOT GIRLS.
 
One of the main reasons the Army uses 5.56 is because the girls are in it now, don't wan't to scare them with a hard hitting round! The 5.56 is a decent round that will kill most of the time but there are better options, but it sacrificies penetration and stopping power for carrying capacity.
Click to expand...


Quote:
I'm hoping you just forgot to add the smiley icon denoting sarcasm
Click to expand...
.
No sarcasm smiley was needed by Shep19. The military brass indeed says that one reason to stay with 5.56 is the fact that they need a weapon which can be handled by girls and boys of "small stature". It's in the article cited by the OP to start this thread clear as day. Makes sense. Maybe he shouldn't have said "don't want to scare them," but the fact remains that the top brass recognizes the physical limitations of having women in the service and its effect on the entire fighting force.
Click to expand...


However women are not allowed into the infantry for a variety of reasons (both psychological, and physical.)
The psychological aspect relates to male and female interactions. How men naturally and culturally act more protective or treat women differently than other men. Setting different or lesser unofficial standards or being overly protective even to the detriment of other male soldiers. They often won't force a woman to do an equal share, take equal risks, and will risk many male soldiers for one female soldier when they wouldn't choose to do the reverse under the same circumstances.
Then you add in sexual relationships and how they may effect forces in remote locations. Dealing with a love triangle and or jealousy on the front lines is counterproductive.
Pregnancy during deployment, and/or birth control considerations also become an issue.


Then you have the physical. Strength to weight ratios in women are much lower. They cannot carry the same % of body weight, nor lift fallen soldiers. When the female body even in athletes is pushed to the same limit as men it is damaged. The military has tried.
Women also have extra hygiene requirements. A woman out in a remote outpost for weeks without running water is going to be a lot nastier than a man. They also have monthly cycles and as a result have additional hygiene and supply requirements. Things like Toxic Shock Syndrome can result if they are not met.

Women and men mixed together in the infantry hurts unit cohesion significantly, political correctness aside.


So bottom line is women are not in the infantry, and it is the needs of the infantry which determine the rifle and caliber that is best for the job.
So if something else worked better for infantry then how well women shot with it would not matter.
There would still be other weapons for those who were armed in support roles.
No the choice of caliber is based on factors beyond what is best for women.
 
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I refuse to get involved in the caliber war here, but having used a 5.56mm weapon exclusively while deployed, I will say that it gets the job done. Whether I would have come home "more alive" if I had a 7.62mm based weapon system is an exercise in futility to debate.
What I would like to ask however, is if anyone call tell me how many things are wrong with the single sentence statement made in the article about the "M14 Garnad"? Or am I the only one that caught that...
 
****SNORE****

Ever been in the hunting board when a "What caliber for hog" question comes up? That is what this reminds me of. There are people that believe you have to hunt hogs with 7mm mag and 454 casull (as a back up only)... Hogs, like tango's, are not impregnated with kevlar from birth.

My guess is the military would be better off spending money on armor and APC's than on a new caliber / battle rifle. Last I checked, our boys were being mauled by snipers and IED's, not failure to stop situations.
 
joel.favre said:
What I would like to ask however, is if anyone call tell me how many things are wrong with the single sentence statement made in the article about the "M14 Garand"? Or am I the only one that caught that...
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Two problems that I see:

1. There is no such thing.
2. The T44 was officially adopted as the M14 in 1957, and the first ones were delivered to the Army in 1959. The article's wording suggests that it was first "fielded" during Viet Nam, but that may be a misinterpretation on my part.
 
Occam's:
good catches, the last problem I saw was kind of a reach, but they talked about 7.62 Nato as the round, not 30-06 which of course is what the Garand was chambered for. So if some mythical "M14 Garand" had existed, it probably would have been an ought-six.
 
Not going to happen for a million reasons. And the mobility vs. firepower argument is still holding up as far as I can tell.
 
Is this a repeat from 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, or 2009?
 
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