Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Marine of the year arrested for shooting in MA.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by CentralTexas, Aug 15, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. CentralTexas

    CentralTexas Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,235
    Location:
    Austin Texas
    Sad...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050815/ts_nm/crime_marine_dc

    BOSTON (Reuters) - A decorated U.S. Marine, who had been treated for post-war stress since serving in Iraq, opened fire outside a Massachusetts nightclub, wounding two people, Boston media reported on Monday.

    ADVERTISEMENT

    Daniel B. Cotnoir will be arraigned on Monday on charges of assault and battery with a deadly weapon and assault with intent to murder after the incident early on Saturday in the city of Lawrence, The Boston Globe said.

    Cotnoir had complained to police after a crowd of nearly 30 people gathered outside a nightclub and restaurant near his apartment. After someone hurled a bottle that shattered his bedroom window, Cotnoir fired "a warning shot," the newspaper said.

    The bullet hit a 15-year-old girl and a 20-year-old man.

    "He shot into what he thought was a safe area, but there was some ricochet effects that Mr. Cotnoir never intended," his lawyer, Robert F. Kelley, was quoted as saying.

    "It was a military-type response to a threatening situation that was civilian in nature."

    Cotnoir, a sergeant awarded the 2005 Marine of the Year by the Marine Corps Times, has been struggling psychologically since returning from Iraq in 2004, Kelley said.

    Police were not immediately available to comment.
     
  2. MikeIsaj

    MikeIsaj Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    878
    Location:
    North of the City of Brotherly Love, West of The P
    Here's the AP release with more detail on www.phillyburbs.com ;

    Marine Accused of Firing on Crowd in Mass.
    The Associated Press
    LAWRENCE, Mass. - A veteran recently named "Marine of the Year" for his service in Iraq was charged with attempted murder after firing a shotgun from his apartment window as a group of noisy revelers stood outside a nightclub, police said.

    Two people were hit by bullet fragments and suffered minor injuries.

    Daniel Cotnoir, 33, had called police minutes earlier to complain about the noise coming from the street shortly before 3 a.m. Saturday, The Lawrence Eagle-Tribune reported.

    He later told authorities someone had thrown an empty bottle through his bedroom window and he feared for the safety of his wife and two daughters, who were home, the newspaper reported.

    Cotnoir was being held on $100,000 bail and scheduled to be arraigned Monday.

    "It was the craziest night of my life," said Kelvin Castro, 20, one of the two people injured. "I don't know what that guy's intentions were."


    Cotnoir has frequently called police to complain about noise and fights outside the Punto Finale nightclub. Last year, police said, he claimed someone leaving the club had fired a gunshot at his apartment.

    During his tour in Iraq last year, Cotnoir had been a military mortician responsible for preparing soldiers for open-casket funerals.

    The job took a heavy psychological toll, he told the Eagle-Tribune in an interview last month after the Marine Corps Times named Cotnoir its "Marine of the Year," an award presented to him at a ceremony in Washington. At the time, he was getting counseling at a veterans hospital.

    "It's a lot harder to talk about the job now than it was at the time to actually do it," Cotnoir told the newspaper then. "The stories I've gained from my deployment aren't the kind of stories you share."


    I feel bad for this guy, I think he's going to get crucified. Don't get me wrong, he broke the law and endangered people, I just can't imagine him getting any slack in Lawrence, Ma.

    Sounds to me like this was an ongoing irritation to him and he had plenty of time to move. Shouldn't live next to a night club if you don't want late night noise.
     
  3. Eskimo Jim

    Eskimo Jim Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    617
    Location:
    New England
    I hope that justice is achieved in this situation.

    Given the facts in the article it sounds like the improper use of a firearm to me. It also sounds like his training would have taught him that the actions he took were wrong. He'll need all the luck he can get being in Massachusetts.

    This quote is just bizarre:
    "It was a military-type response to a threatening situation that was civilian in nature."

    -Jim
     
  4. Leatherneck

    Leatherneck Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,545
    Location:
    No. Virginia and Northern Neck
    That's Sergeant Cotnoir's lawyer setting him up for a temporary insanity defense based on PTSD.

    It sorrows me to see a good Marine fall from Grace. :(

    TC
     
  5. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,672
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    So a "civilian" bottle can't cut you? Only a "militery" bottle?


    Kevin
     
  6. MikeIsaj

    MikeIsaj Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    878
    Location:
    North of the City of Brotherly Love, West of The P
    Civilian or military the reasonable response to a bottle thrown through the window is move your family away from the window call 911 and report the escalation of the threat. Shooting through or out the window is not.
     
  7. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    4,487
    Location:
    somewhere on Puget Sound
    I'm not excusing, apologizing, justifying or otherwise rationalizing this man's reaction to a situation that occured at 3:00 a.m. -- but perhaps those folks who've not spent a year in Iraq should not rush to judgement about this Marine's actions ...
     
  8. thorn726

    thorn726 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,388
    Location:
    berkeley, CA
    ridiculous statement. defeats the whole point of us needing soldiers if they are all gonna come back and shoot us up cuz they are too war stressed.

    exactly.
    this is really sad, as i am sure it is mostly due to thew guy being stressed, and i find attempted murder ludicrous. but dont give me the "you havent been there" garbage, we can't totally excuse him, or we have to let every returning soldier act crazy and shoot at all of us.
    somehow thaT doesnt seem like what the military is trained for.

    hopefully he gets a short sentence mainly focused on giving him some mental help
     
  9. pythonguy

    pythonguy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    It a shame, but should be an eye opener for all those "what if" threads if you catch someone destroying your property can you use your weapon to scare or intimidate them? You can for a $100,000 bond and the chance to spend a few years in jail, PLUS no more guns for you. Of course he was wrong, but I hope he gets some help for his problems, but, we all have problems, don't we? And we don't go shooting our guns to scare people.... :banghead:
     
  10. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    4,487
    Location:
    somewhere on Puget Sound
    Ah, Thorn ... I don't particularly care that you think mine that was a "ridiculous statement" ... however, the fact that you said that indicates that you may require a bit more life experience. I'm guessing that (1) you're young, perhaps about 20, 22 and (2) you've zero military experience and certainly have never experienced sustained combat operations. My remarks were intended to support the concept that combat-related PTSD is very real, and will govern one's behavior and reactions sometimes even much later in one's life ... If you cannot understand that, fine, just figure out a better way to argue someone else's remarks. The very fact that you haven't been there is indeed germane. As I stated, I was not intending to excuse this person's actions.

    By the way, I find this portion of your statement ridiculous:
     
  11. Diamondback

    Diamondback Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Messages:
    588
    Location:
    WA State
    No ones defending this Marine's decision to fire into a crowd....Old Dog is just trying to put some perspective on an otherwise very poor decision. PTSD is real......and in this country we recognize mitigating circumstances. It doesn't absolve the accused.....it brings some clarity and understanding to an otherwise reprehensible behavior.

    -regards
     
  12. MikeIsaj

    MikeIsaj Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    878
    Location:
    North of the City of Brotherly Love, West of The P
    Wasn't there but was close enough. Woke up one morning in Beirut to the sound of the building next door being blown up by a truck bomb. Survived the shower of plate glass, concrete chunks and rebar, went over and picked up body parts for a few days. Was told later I had PTSD. Never once decided to shoot any number of jerks that I've had to deal with since then. Is it easy? Absolutly not but, PTSD is not an excuse.

    That's my perspective.
     
  13. Diamondback

    Diamondback Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Messages:
    588
    Location:
    WA State
    No its not an excuse...we are not saying it is !........all I am saying is figure PTSD into the mix before you charge and sentance....that's all...if it's relevant in the case !

    -regards
     
  14. Joejojoba111

    Joejojoba111 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,056
    I think there are extenuating circumstances there, he's a combat very with ptsd, he was attacked, and he fired not at them but away from them, and the bullet richocheted. There's a lot of room for leniency there.

    I remember a police officer in Boston who shot and killed a teenage girl because someone threw a botte and it landed near them, and he really did just open fire on the crowd. If that's not a precedent i don't know what is.
     
  15. jdkelly

    jdkelly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2003
    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    No, I don't think that you need to have been in Iraq to judge whether the shooters actions were proper.

    Nor do you need to have been in Iraq to understand that the shooter has "issues".


    This shooter was not an on duty Police Officer working riot control. There is no precedent set here. The City of Boston paid dearly for that shooting.

    If the shooter (Marine) couldn't identify the threat then he had no legitimate target.



    Respectfully,

    jkelly
     
  16. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    A bottle is absolutely a lethal weapon. MANY people are killed or seriously injured every year by broken bottles. They can slash through skin and break skulls. The only thing he did wrong was fire warning shots. He should have targetted the one throwing bottles and blown their head off. Sadly, he was living in a slave state so they'll hang him out to dry and give the night club scum awards. An angry mob of thirty people throwing bottles at you is a very imminent lethal threat. I'd probably open up on them with everything I have.
     
  17. BostonGeorge

    BostonGeorge Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Salem, NH
    Actually she was eight days shy of 22 and it was with a less-lethal weapon, a FN303 pepper-pellet gun. I guess thats almost the same :rolleyes:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=victoria+snelgrove
     
  18. BostonGeorge

    BostonGeorge Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Salem, NH
    Wow. That was disgusting.
     
  19. Joejojoba111

    Joejojoba111 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,056
    I was going to type that it was less lethal or less-than lethal, or non-lethal, but it would just confuse the issue.
     
  20. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    Drunken mobs are extremely dangerous. I have absolutely no remorse for them. People who get drunk and mill around in crowds threatening people are asking to have their heads blown off, that's just the way it is. A drunken, angry crowd is a mindless, potentially lethal creature. Worse than a wounded cape buf. And frankly a lot more dangerous than a random street thug.

    Just imagine THIRTY FRICKING PEOPLE all drunk and hostile milling around outside your house throwing bottles at your family. The police had done nothing to stop it. The man should have hosed them down with gasoline and lit them up.
     
  21. 45lvr

    45lvr Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    georgia
    its just a bad situation thats all. bad judgement, ptsd, liberal state....you name it. it just sucks he lost a moment of clarity, for whatever reason.
     
  22. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    The mob itself is a legitimate target if the mob is attacking you in your house and will not leave.

    He needs some Alaskans on that jury I think :D
     
  23. jdkelly

    jdkelly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2003
    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Cosmoline,

    Tell me you're off your meds.


    jkelly
     
  24. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    4,487
    Location:
    somewhere on Puget Sound
    Did you read my posts? Of course, his actions were not proper.
    No, of course, not, clearly, the man has "issues." I was addressing one poster in particular who doesn't seem to understand that spending a year of one's life in constant, neverending, unmitigated fear for one's life, never knowing where the next threat will come from, never feeling safe, while at the same time dealing with the butchered remains of your fallen comrades on a daily basis could just possibly contribute to an inappropriate, explosive and possibly lethal reaction in even the most benign situation ...
     
  25. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    Important safety tip: Alaskans with rifles and drunken crowds from the east coast are like oil and water. I have a hard enough time containing myself around the tour groups. How can you trust people who mill around in crowds together? It's not natural. Our drunks here tend to wander alone and at worst walk out in front of your car. Over there and in Europe they get in these big groups and start acting crazy.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page