Marine shooting in Iraq justified-poll

[CentralTexas]

By now you have seen the video of the marine who thought the wounded Iraqui was a threat. He had the bad fortune of the media filming so either way he is probably screwed. After review of the facts & the video- 8 or so 15hr+ days on patrol, shot in face day before and the hours before booby trapping of a dead body that killed another marine and wounded five I think without a doubt this guy was in the right.
Thoughts?
CT

 

[critter]

War is hell. I was not there. I will not judge him to be guilty.

 

[DRZinn]

Why did that cameraman turn the film over to the press? It should have been given to the brass. He could have easily kept a copy to publicize later if the incident wasn't investigated. Let's see - justice done, no black eye for the US... yep, too easy.

 

[Delmar]

As per usual, the press will make more of this than the clear cut atrocities done by the other side. I am not in a position to judge this particular marine.

I do hope he is able to live with what he has had to go through-the shooting plus all the unspeakable things that young man has had to witness in the past days.

Some strange things happen in battle, and if you take them completely out of context, its pretty clear what is right and wrong. Put them on a battlefield, and the most you can say is, "I wouldn't a done that, but I understand why."

 

[F4GIB]

The cameraman get PAID by the footage that he sells. We (gun owners) should all know by now that the "media" doesn't act because they search for the truth but to sell newspapers, TV advertising, or, in the case of this cameraman, to pay for his next BMW. I'll bet he got $50,000 from Al-Jezzera.

 

[birdv]

I thought they were screening the tapes. I guess I was wrong.


Judged by 12 carried by 6.

What would you choose???

 

[Grey54956]

If I understand the situation as it unfolded, the Iraqis were holed up in a mosque taking potshots at our marines, which is strictly a no-no. Temples are typically sanctuaries, not to be used as firing positions. A group of marines stormed the mosque, during which the Iraqi insurgents were wounded. After the insurgents surrendered, they were told to sit tight and another group of marines would arrive to pick them up and take them to the back of the lines for treatment. Once the original marines are out of sight, the insurgents dig up some more weapons, and fire upon the second group of marines. The second group of marines storm the place and find the wounded insurgents. One of whom is playing dead, presumably waiting for the marines to clear out so he can take up a firing position again. Unfortunately for him, "pop goes the weasel..." I believe that this would qualify him as a spy or saboteur, and thus would not be subject to protections under the Geneva Conventions. The shooting is justified.

The moral of the story is don't be a weasel.

 

[itgoesboom]

Anybody have a link to the video?

I have seen part of it, but I would prefer to withhold judgement.

I can see how the soldier might be worried about a booby trapped body, and would be justified in shooting, and I can see the other side as well.

I.G.B.

 

[mattHP]

i accidentally hit not justified instead of not enough info. IF the actions depicted on the video were all there was to it, he was probably not justified. i don't give a damn about the iraqi, but i'd be a lot more concerned about the mental well-being of the marine and the effects of his actions on his unit's order and discipline. the book achilles in vietnam had a lot to say on the subject, basically that a failure of the chain of command to levy some sort of punishment for violation of laws of war can worsen ptsd. the iraqi can burn for all i care.

 

[Chris Rhines]

Having seen the video and read the audio transcripts, there is no possible way that the soldier was justified in shooting an unarmed prisoner. That soldier (I use the term loosely) is a murderer who deserves neither consideration nor sympathy.

- Chris

 

[sigmaman]

not in the mood to get flamed by myself

i agree with doczinn
reporter turns tape over to military keeps copy for himself soldier not prosecuted air the tape

 

[nygunguy]

Please Read Froggy Ruminations

I personally can't believe that this is even an issue. We need to call or write our congress people and get them to stop the insanity.



I found Froggy Ruminations to have a very nice perspective on the matter.

"...So you can either risk your life and your fireteam's lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Also, you don't know who or what is in the next room, and you're already speaking english to each other and its loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist that was just shooting at you from a mosque playing possum. What do you do?

You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that's what."​

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

Having seen the video and read the audio transcripts, there is no possible way that the soldier was justified in shooting an unarmed prisoner. That soldier (I use the term loosely) is a murderer who deserves neither consideration nor sympathy.

- Chris

Wow that's absolutely ridiculous. So you're saying that seeing the video you were able to ascertain that the terrorist did not have a weapon, a grenade or an IED under that blanket? I guess the marines are supposed to have ESP now and determine who is armed and who isn't while in a combat zone? Calling a US Marine fighting for OUR country and doing his JOB.....which would be KILLING terrorists...yes that's what marines and soldiers do....kill people and break things....a murderer really disgusts me. It shows you have zero respect for the US military.

 

[CannibalCrowley]

Why did that cameraman turn the film over to the press? It should have been given to the brass. He could have easily kept a copy to publicize later if the incident wasn't investigated. Let's see - justice done, no black eye for the US... yep, too easy.

Because that method worked so well for Abu Gharib Is it better that he released it now, or after the military tried to cover it up?

If I understand the situation as it unfolded

You obviously don't.

Once the original marines are out of sight, the insurgents dig up some more weapons, and fire upon the second group of marines.

No weapons were found in the room.

One of whom is playing dead, presumably waiting for the marines to clear out so he can take up a firing position again.

What's the difference between someone "playing dead" and someone lying there because he's severely wounded and maybe even unconscious? Of course if he was moving the excuse would be that they thought he was going for a weapon. It's like two cops with their guns drawn on a suspect. One is yelling "put your hands up" and the other is shouting "don't move". Either way they'll have an excuse when they fire. What was he going to fire at them with, the magical rifles than suddenly disappeared?

I believe that this would qualify him as a spy or saboteur, and thus would not be subject to protections under the Geneva Conventions. The shooting is justified.

He would still be entitled to a trial. Maybe you should visit the thread about Geneva misconceptions.

After review of the facts & the video- 8 or so 15hr+ days on patrol, shot in face day before and the hours before booby trapping of a dead body that killed another marine and wounded five I think without a doubt this guy was in the right.

None of that matters. Him being worn out doesn't change the law any.

 

[sigmaman]

link to video unedited
[video here

 

[Blackhawk 6]

This situation is much too complex to determine the legitimacy of the Marine's actions based on a video clip. A detailed understanding of all the circumstance involved is required, a none of us are privy to the information.

 

[sabre452]

Wow,
we send the Marines in to Fallujah to kill terrorist and then we want to crucify one of them for doing our bidding. These wounded people had been firing from a Mosque at these Marines (violation of the Geneva Convention). The guy was faking death, in the presence of our soldiers in a combat zone. Incidently, the remainder of the wounded surrendered after this guy was shot. Why didn't this guy surrender immediately instead of playing possum. We'll never know, and frankly I don't think we need to know. I would have handled the situation exactly the same way if I had the courage to be a Marine in that combat zone. The reporter is a weasel and needs to be sent home before he steps on a booby trap or gets one of our guys killed.

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

No weapons were found in the room.

And of course your position is the marine is just supposed to KNOW that. Do you have some magic weapon and bomb detection device that I'm unaware of? This is a COMBAT ZONE and the job of marines and soldiers is to KILL the enemy and STAY ALIVE....taking prisoners is a secondary concern. If you feel otherwise I encourage you to start up your own platoon of marines who will sign a pact to put the lives of wounded enemy above their own. Then YOU can go on over to Falluja and do the much better job that you seem to think you could accomplish than this marine.

 

[Delmar]

I suppose it wouldn't have mattered if the Iraqi was armed or connected to an IED, either. The only thing different is that it would not have been on TV, because it would have been just a couple more dead marines.

It's one thing to sit at the computer and monday morning quarterback this young fella-its a different sight by far to have to do what he is doing. Those so quick to jump to conclusions as to the man's guilt makes me wonder where their experience lies.

Putting a man's guilt up this quick after so little info reminds me of the whoop and holler about the Olympic guard in Atlanta years ago.

 

[Wildalaska]

This situation is much too complex to determine the legitimacy of the Marine's actions based on a video clip. A detailed understanding of all the circumstance involved is required, a none of us are privy to the information.

Bingo!

WildthevoiceofreasonaboveAlaska

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

link to video unedited
[video here

This video shows the Marine's actions in a positive light, in view of the situation...

He knows that hajis are feigning death for tactical reasons in other parts of the city... He sees a "dead" terrorist move, and lights him up... BUT his squad sees an obviously injured terrorist on the deck, and lets him live.

Moral: If you're injured and we know it, ok; If we think you're feigning death, we make sure.

He might not have been faking it. If he was really just severely injured, tough luck for him... He should not have expected to fire on US Marines and live to tell about it anyways. It is war. ???? like that happens... And if it comes down to it, I'd rather see a dead Iraqi than dead or injured Marines any day.

 

[sigmaman]

speak the truth

the fact is we all know the marine did wrong but we dont care cause they are arab bastards and they do the same to us
is that what you really feel
i dont care about the damm iraqi getting shot
but you know what the marine is wrong
if the camera man hadnt of been there we would not be having this argument
still doesnt change anything the marine summarily executed the man
so keep reaching and reaching

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

the fact is we all know the marine did wrong but we dont care cause they are arab bastards and they do the same to us
is that what you really feel
i dont care about the damm iraqi getting shot
but you know what the marine is wrong
if the camera man hadnt of been there we would not be having this argument
still doesnt change anything the marine summarily executed the man
so keep reaching and reaching

Please do not speak for me or try to put words in my mouth. I do NOT believe that this marine was wrong. Some people just can't seem to comprehend what happens in war. I don't know how many times I have to say this but the job of soldiers and marines is to KILL PEOPLE. That is what he did.....killed the enemy before the enemy could do the same to him or his comrades. This is not a diffcult issue to comprehend. Had I been in his situation I would have done exactly the same thing and not felt one bit sorry for it.

 

[Barbara]

NBC said the Marine, who had reportedly been shot in the face himself the previous day, said immediately after the shooting: "Well, he's dead now."

I'm not judging him. It's a war, and people are die. You do what you have to do to survive and sometimes things get fuzzy.

We keep prosecuting our folks for being a little too mean to the enemy, and meanwhile, the enemy is sawing the heads off our citizens and shooting humanitarian aid workers in the head after torturing them for a few weeks. I'm waiting for a trial for one of them, eh?

 

[Blackhawk 6]

the fact is we all know the marine did wrong ...

The fact is most of us do not know what we are talking about. We can not state with any degree of certainty under what circumstances the Marine's actions would be justified and under what circumstances they would not.

...we dont care cause they are arab bastards and they do the same to us

There may be some truth in that statement though I would submit it has more to do with them being bastards and less to do with them being Arab.