Marlin Carbine.....I'm sooooo screwed. Please help.

[VaughnT]

Talk about embarrassing, I was out shooting my new-to-me Marlin M45 Carbine when I noted that the magazine disconnect was jamming outward and preventing magazines from being inserted.

I got through about 45 rounds of 230g FMJ and about 20 rounds of 230g GDHP +P when the problem occured. At first, the magazines were suspect, but then I tried a few of my proven Wilson mags and they wouldn't insert.

Well, stupid me, I disassembled the weapon to remove the mag disconnect and now I can't get the receiver back together. What do I do?

The sticking point is that dang long coil spring under the sear. It looks like the sear spring is supposed to lay flat along the bottom of the receiver, but I can't get all the pieces back together under that spring pressure.

Am I trying the wrong spring? How long is this spring supposed to be? There are several springs in there, but I can't remember which went where.

And, yes, my face is red.

 

[BEARMAN]

For a MANUAL on the MARLIN M45 goto ( http://stevespages.com/page7b.htm ) also for a exploded diagram of a Marlin 9 ( similar to M45) goto ( www.again.net/~steve/page7a.htm )

 

[VaughnT]

Thanks for the link, Bearman. That second one has better clarity than the manual, but I still can't see what I'm doing wrong.

I did find that the spring I was trying to fit under the sear was the wrong one. It was part of the mag disconnect mechanism, which is now defunct.

The current problem is that I can't get the trigger/sear engagement right. Something is preventing the two from hooking up, but I can't figure out what.

Sucks to be this close and yet so far away.

And I haven't even cleaned it from the shooting session!

 

[Dave Sample]

If you call Marlin they will send you a manual free of charge. I would not remove that magazine safety on mine because it never causes any problems on my Marlin Camp Carbine 45 ACP. I like it just where it is. Removing safety features is not advised by anyone I know. Or, at least, admit to knowing!

 

[sm]

IIRC

Wilson mags will not work because of the "U" cut out in design.

McCormick Power mags will because they are "I_I" in design.

Mr. Dave Sample and others know more about this than I ...

...whatever it was , it involved more than just follower design according to the fella whose gun I was shooting...too many guns of others I shot that day for fun to really remember...the .458 Win Mag I didn't get a good cheek weld on probably jarred some gray matter loose as well...

 

[VaughnT]

Dave, I wouldn't have removed the safety feature if it wasn't impairing the function of the weapon. I literally could not insert a magazine because the safety lever wouldn't retract. What's a fella to do?

I have a copy of the manual that I printed off the internet, but the exploded diagram doesn't show how the trigger and sear engage. I have the whole thing back together, now, but I can't get any function due to this malfunction. I definitely won't do this again!

 

[Dave Sample]

I know that you were not trying to do the wrong thing. As a FFL holder and pistolsmith I have to stand by what safety rules apply in public. I do not think that the Carbine was malfunctioning due to the magazine safety but being on the internet and not being able to lay hands on this gun, it is hard for me to help. I will examine mine closely and see if we can get this working again. The mags go in hard in mine and the tiny button releaser is not to my liking either but it does work. Do not give up yet! Let me do some research. I use Metalform 10 rounders and CMC 10 rounders with no problems. I prefer the CMC's.

 

[Badger Arms]

The Marlin was designed NOT to be disassembled. I have detail stripped literally hundreds of different weapons and can easilly say that this was the most difficult to reassemble correctly. I think the designers were on acid when they designed the gun. You MUST look at the parts when you disassemble them to be able to reassemble them right.

 

[VaughnT]

Dave, I can say with certainty that it was the mag-disconnect safety that was impairing mag insertion. I could clearly see that the lever was sticking out into the magwell and it never moved back into the housing. What happened is unclear, but there it is.

Upon disassembly, the lever just fell out of the receiver, meaning that someone was in there before me. It wasn't until a long bout of cussing that I figured out which pin held that stinking arm and how it engaged the rest of the system.

Badger, you aren't kidding about this being one incredibly complex system. For the life of me, I can't figure out what they were thinking, but I can say that the overly buggered system had to play a part in the weapon not selling well.

Right now, I was able to fire two rounds out of the weapon before the trigger froze up solid. What's wrong is still up in the air because I'm loathe to strip the bastard down again. I'm thinking there's still a problem with the disconnect system, but where do I look?

Fred Choate did email me saying he has some folding stocks in house. Can't wait to slap one on, but I have to wait until I get this thing up and running.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Re mag insertion: I noticed that mine Camp 45 likes only those magazines with a square cutout at the top back. I have one 1911 with a rounded cutout and I can't fully insert it into the Marlin, although it works fine in my 1911.

 

[RogersPrecision]

I was 'into' a 45 Marlin a while back.....
1st thing that happened was I launched the hammer spring to parts
unknown!
Ordered another from Brownell's, yes they do have Marlin parts!
Found the original a day later.
Biggest prob, and why it came to me originally.....
the feed ramp is a seperate spring loaded, pivoting part. It is all too
easy to re-assemble with the feed ramp UNDER the barrel. Won't
work like that!
Re-assembly did require a couple of slave pins and 3 hands,
but was sure a bunch easier than the trigger group of a Para LDA!
I'll say this:
that pistol caliber carbine had a kick to it!
Din't 'hurt' my shoulder, but was harsh for an 8lb 45acp!
All in all, not a gun I'd want. For its' size and weight, a most in-efficient
weapon. Try one against a GOOD man with a Glock 19.........

 

[VaughnT]

Roger, what other options are out there? I'd like to have something that is reliable, durable, attractive AND which takes the 1911 magazines. I'm open to suggestions.

Part of the recoil problem seems to be the heavy breach block and light recoil spring. I'm thinking a heavier spring would reduce the impact of the breech block on the rear of the receiver and the resultant transfer of energy down the stock to your shoulder. Thoughts?

I'm going to have to buy some brass pins if I'm going to work on this action any further. I might even buy some sheet steel and make a copy of the holed side to replace the side with the pins welded to it. I have time and a $350 lump to recover.


Thanks for the input, gents. Keep it coming.




Just to update, ya'll, the problem has been fixed. One of the biggest stumbling blocks was not having enough slave pins, but then I remembered a case of large jeweler's screw drivers that I was given many years ago; they worked perfectly!

Once I was able to hold the entire unit together and see how all of the parts worked together, it was no time at all before I could see the problem area and deal with it. From what I could tell, the plastic receiver was flawed slightly and was binding on the lever, preventing it from actuating the disconnector effectively.

And, ya know, once you've taken that system apart about a hundred times, and have enough slave pins to work with, it really isn't that difficult to work with. I can honestly say that I know this gun inside and out, now that I've been through it from top to bottom.

Oh, yea, just the few rounds I've fired, less than a hundred and not much of it +P, and I'm already seeing failure in the Hammer Strut and the Hammer Strut Bridge. Anyone out there capable of making a more durable set for me? Maybe some double-thickness parts? I've got mula!!!

 

[Dave Sample]

Chuck has shot mine and it worked fine for both of us. I don't remember any problems with it other than the feed ramp was tucked under when I bought it and the price was right because it wouldn't feed. I did put a Wolff recoil spring in it as it threw the emptys out about 30 feet with the original spring. Parts are available for it. When they break, install new ones. I am glad to hear that you got it working again. That is good news.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Part of the recoil problem seems to be the heavy breech block and light recoil spring. I'm thinking a heavier spring would reduce the impact of the breech block on the rear of the receiver and the resultant transfer of energy down the stock to your shoulder. Thoughts?

The OEM spring that Marlin put in is only rated for about 11 lbs. That's grossly undersprung in my opinion. I put a 16 lbs. Wolffe spring in mine. Function was great and it probably soaked up a lot of the impact. (I say "probably" b/c I never shot it with the OEM spring.)

 

[VaughnT]

Called Marlin before heading to the gym. I have a hammer strut, strut bridge, and buffer on the way. Also called Wolff and ordered both their 16# and 21# recoil springs. I'm curious to see how well they reduce recoil and take some of the beating off of that flimsy strut bridge. I might just double-up on the bridges and see if they don't last longer that way.

It's definitely a cool little gun and should do well as a truck gun.

Next step? Bed-liner on the stock for grip and weather resistance. Weaver rail on top for a head'sup sight of some kind (not exactly the right platform for an ACOG!). Maybe that Docter sight?

Add on a Eagle stock pad/pouch and a sling, and I'll be ready for whatever comes.

And then the AWB sunsets and I get to buy yet another box-fed something or other. Can't wait for that to happen.

 

[Dave Sample]

Sounds like a plan to me. I have a Tasco Red Eye on mine. Works great out to 100 yards.