Maryland Police officers serving 'red flag' gun seizure fatally shoot armed man

[wojownik]

Thank goodness that the Supreme Court had a very different opinion in Heller - which explicitly ruled that 2A is an individual right - and McDonald - which applied that to states.

Just amazed that gun owners don't understand this.

The actual text as well as the point of the 2A is not that it allows PERSONS to keep and bear arms, but rather that it allows THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms. One sensible interpretation of the Constitution is that 2A is not an individual right but rather a group right. The purpose of the amendment is fulfilled when there is general gun ownership. For the purposes of the 2A it does not require John Doe to be able to keep and bear a gun in light of obvious threat to other individuals or to the society at large. If a rare individual is deprived of their (supposed but actually not real) individual RKBA following due process, I do not see that as an Infringement of 2A so long as the PEOPLE in general enjoy the right of gun ownership.

 

[wojownik]

If applied narrowly, and with solid grounding, then perhaps a red flag protective order can serve a value. It is entirely unclear in the case the OP cited whether the individual was violent, mentally ill, or otherwise presented a danger to himself and others. According to his own family he was "opinionated". And drank some. And owned a gun. And his relation decided to drop the dime on him (we don't know know you what she said to get the judge to issue the order, whether it was true, an exaggeration, or an outright falsehood).

So this is the problem - this was not a guy that apparently needed "treatment". He may have been ornery, or whatever, but no reports at all so of any history mental illness. No reports of prior criminal record. No reports of violence. Just that he was "opinionated."

So, no, I have to disagree - not only is the Red Flag law in Maryland not perfect, I would now argue that is has demonstrated is ability to be abused. In this case with lethal consequences.

Red flag is not a "deep dark conspiracy" to take your guns.

Quite the contrary. It isn't perfect, but it's a good stop-gap measure until the individual can either seek treatment voluntarily, be ordered into treatment by a court, or possibly take the government to court and ask for the Red Flag order to be vacated.

 

[alsaqr]

So was the guy a violent criminal, prior to the incident, or did the government's actions make him one?

IMO: It don't matter whether the guy was a criminal prior to the incident. The idiot fought with the cops and fired a round. That is just about guaranteed to get someone killed anywhere in the USA.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Thank goodness that the Supreme Court had a very different opinion in Heller - which explicitly ruled that 2A is an individual right - and McDonald - which applied that to states.

Just amazed that gun owners don't understand this.

We are letting this go in deference to the moderator. Sufficient for me to say that you have no idea whatsoever what I am talking about. My position would greatly benefit gun owners by creating a protected class (the group) for them. To take a gun away from an individual, it would be necessary to show how they did not conform to the group. But that's okay. I didn’t expect anyone to understand this.

 

[Robert]

Well this ended in an off topic train wreck. I'm shocked... Oh wait, no I'm not.