Marylanders - Need Help! Can't Get My Gun In My Own Home!

[DelayedReaction]

Greetings All,

I am a senior at the University of Maryland, College Park, and I am a gun enthusiast. I regularly go shooting, and I thoroughly enjoy my hobby. Unfortunately, because of the Maryland Criminal Code I can't keep my gun in my own apartment. The Code prevents people from possessing firearms on "public school property," but utterly fails to define exactly what a "public school" is. As a result, the University legal counsel has said that I can't keep a gun in my apartment because to do so would violate Maryland law. That it also blatantly violates my 2nd Amendment right is pretty much a given, buy this is Maryland.

The reason the Code applies is because my apartment is on land leased by the University, and is therefore technically "public school property." If the § 4-102 of the code were changed from "public school property" to "primary and secondary school property," I wouldn't have to worry about this.

I've already e-mailed my Senator, Senator Gianetti (who seems to be supportive of the RKBA from other posts here), but is there more I can do?

Thanks all.

 

[Spot77]

I'm not a lawyer, but I think the school's legal counsel is correct. There's a certain amount of ownership transferred in a lease, so U of MD "technically" owns the land they're leasing, thus their rules apply.


Have any friends with a safe you trust until you're out of school?

 

[Crownvicman]

Are you sure a University is a "Public School"? It may be owned by the state, but it is not "public" in the same way a High School or Elementary School is. The public schools pretty much have to let everyone in, but not a University.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

It sounds like since your apartment is leased by the school, you'll have to find another place. Parking, school, or school property (apartments, dorms) are off limits to guns. Not much to stand on but there's no winning on this position, legally.

 

[Bubbles]

IIRC from my years at U of M, there is plenty of off-campus housing. Move.

After you graduate, move to VA. Trust me, you will be much happier in the long run. I left 13 years ago and haven't regretted it.

 

[HankB]

There's a certain amount of ownership transferred in a lease, so U of MD "technically" owns the land they're leasing, thus their rules apply.

Hmmm . . . I'm not a lawyer either, but consider what this means. If leasing property confers the rights of ownership and U of MD "owns" the land when they lease it from the true owner, don't YOU technically "own" the apartment once YOU lease it from U of MD?

I'd take a CLOSE look at my lease agreement if I were you.

 

[DelayedReaction]

The gun is safely and legally stored in a secure location, and my lease does not have any prohibitions against the ownership of firearms. The problem is that no matter who leases the apartment, it's still technically on the ground of a "public school." This also means that I'm technically in violation of the law already because my kitchen has several knives in it!

 

[bigjoegood1]

DelayedReaction,

You can "keep" them at my house! I live right around the corner from PG Plaza so you could come and visit them anytime.

jk - I hope you find a suitable resolution to this issue. How long before you graduate? Have you looked into storage at one of the local gun shops?

--bigjoe

 

[Norton]

Honestly...they'd be much safer with me in Annapolis Since I work in Greenbelt I'd be happy to come by and get it

bigjoegood1: If you live around the corner from PG Plaza.....you NEED more guns


If they don't know about it....can they do anything about it?

 

[Cliff]

delayedreaction,
I'm in Lanham,right next to Greenbelt. Depending on how many you have,I can keep them safe and warm for you. My safe is pretty full right now.

 

[dfaugh]

When I was at school in Texas

and lived in a dorm, alcohol, drugs and firearms were not allowed on campus. So in addition to the booze we kept in the communal refrigerator(it was usually pretty much full) we respectfully never had more than 4 guns in the dorm room at any one time. As for the drugs....(hey, it was the 70's.what can I say )

 

[Standing Wolf]

Where does it say all that @#$%^&*! in the Second Amendment?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Hmmm . . . I'm not a lawyer either, but consider what this means. If leasing property confers the rights of ownership and U of MD "owns" the land when they lease it from the true owner, don't YOU technically "own" the apartment once YOU lease it from U of MD?

I'd take a CLOSE look at my lease agreement if I were you.

I did some research on school housing (on campus dorm in this case) last spring over an issue I was having w/ the Housing Department. It is very probably that the top of your agreement will read something like "The following agreement confers a LICENSE to live in campus housing..." rather than a LEASE. Double check your agreement, but if that is the case then you probably don't have any choice. As a license holder you don't have a lot of the rights and privleges that a lease holder would. It is my understanding that this is fairly common in college housing. I have no idea why colleges do this. My only guess is so it's easier for them to jerk students around whenever they feel like it.


With apologies to WildAlaska,
PhantomIvebeenjerkedaroundbycollegeadministrationstoomanytimestotrustthemanymoreWarrior

 

[DelayedReaction]

I wasn't clear enough. I don't live on "Campus Housing," I live in an apartment that exists on land leased from the University. Everything I do is through the people who run my apartment; the only reason the University is involved is because the land is owned by them.

The law states that I can't have a weapon "on public school grounds." Since my apartment quite literally stands on ground owned by a public school, I am prohibited from keeping a weapon in my apartment. It doesn't matter who owns the apartment, who I'm leasing to, or anything else. On a very fundamental level, I am on ground that is owned by a public school, and cannot keep weapons there.

This, incidentally, is a stupid law because it also means I technically shouldn't own any kitchen knives, or even a pocket knife for that matter.

 

[garyk/nm]

If this is just investment property owned by the State, and not "on school grounds", then the U's attorneys are full of crap. If you in fact have a lease, not a license as previously mentioned, read the lease. If it contains no language barring you from firearm possession, consult a Real Estate attorney. Leases DO confer certain rights of ownership and can NOT be abbrogated on a whim.

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. I am, however a licensed Real Estate professional.

3 choices: roll over, fight it or move. And if they give you any crap about breaking your lease, see above. THEY broke the lease.

If you want to keep your guns, this is going to involve a fight. How much effort are you willing to put in to it?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

You need to consult an attorney, but it appears that the university's legal guru may be blowing smoke.

Some years ago I worked for a company that did business with Yale University. Many people don't seem to be aware of it, but it looks like Yale actually owns about 75% of downtown New Haven, CT. Many of Yale's properties are old buildings that are leased out to shops and stores and service establishments such as dry cleaners and barber shops. I don't believe those types of properties are considered to be "school" properties, because they aren't used for any educational-related purposes. They are simply investment holdings.

 

[G T]

This is actually a famous ambiguity in Maryland law.

The law is:

§ 4-102 (b) Prohibited.- A person may not carry or possess a firearm, knife, or deadly weapon of any kind on public school property.

You can make a compelling argument that the University is not a public school because it is described under a different section than grade- and high schools in the Maryland Code. For instance, there is under the section EDUCATION:

Title 7 - Public schools: speaks only of kindergarten, grade- and high schools
Title 12 - University System of Maryland

Of course, the best argument is made with the definition: (under EDUCATION)

§ 1-101 (k) Public schools.- "Public schools" means the schools in the public elementary and secondary education system of this State.

High school is "secondary" education and college is "post-secondary." Personally, this all seems fairly clear to me but I'm sure lawyers in Maryland can turn this around somehow.

If you're not comfortable with this, my friends in Greenbelt may be looking for another roommate. They already have a gunsafe, the past and present president of the College Republicans live there, etc. Might be a good place to move out to for you.

 

[MikeK]

I'll ask my brother, who is an attorney in MD, on Christmas when he's over. He has been able to clarify MD law for some other THR members. I live about 10 miles northwest of the campus and also have a little room in the gun safe.

 

[bigjoegood1]

Norton: I have enough to arm mrsbigjoegood1 and myself with primary and back-ups with back ups for the backups! My sons even have blowguns if anyone wants to try anything crazy. I'm waiting for some ebay payments to come in so that I can go shopping for some new/old stuff. I want to get a few of them thar CZ-52's and an m38 and m44.

 

[Norton]

bigjoegood:

Sounds like you're set. Add some kevlar and you're good to go

 

[apatriot]

Your states property owner rights apply in this situation.And they are applied in your favor.You have a lease,which is a rental contract.Irregardless if the school owns the land the apartment sits on,you own it under the property ownership laws of your state.The school has no legal say in what you do or do not do,on property you "Rent" from them,or who ever executed the lease with you.If there is not an agreement in the lease,that you will not own or possess firearms,then nobody can dictate rules to the contrary of your states laws.

 

[Travis McGee]

Don't ask, don't tell.

 

[DelayedReaction]

I'm gonna fight this as well as I can. The gun is currently in as good a location as I'm going to get, so this is purely going to be a legal fight.

 

[MICHAEL T]

How do they know you have a firearm did you tell them . If its such a problem move somewere else. Or leave with family or friends. You will not win this battle unless you have lots and lots of money for lawyers. Your not living there for rest of your life so not worth the fight in my.02

 

[DelayedReaction]

MikeK, any luck?