entropy
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That's why I look ( through other windows, not just the door) after some time.
Massad Ayoob on Two Aspects of Home Defense
- Thread starter Kleanbore
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That's why I look ( through other windows, not just the door) after some time.
scaatylobo
Member
Mentioned this before,but here I go again.
IF you,YES YOU actually believe that you can clear your own house in a safe manner [ meaning you do not get shot ] .
Then please,PLEASE,PLEASE try this one on for size.
Ask your best friend [ one you trust = period ] to come over to play a game.
Get a airsoft gun,or at least a powerful flashlight.
Then your friend hides in your house,the house you know like the back of your hand.
IF your friend gets a shot at you [ or "lights you up" ] then you lost as your no longer able to save yourself OR your family.
Having been forced to clear too many buildings to remember,when I was an LEO.
The only reason I am alive is --------- no one wanted me dead more than they wanted to live.
IF you,YES YOU actually believe that you can clear your own house in a safe manner [ meaning you do not get shot ] .
Then please,PLEASE,PLEASE try this one on for size.
Ask your best friend [ one you trust = period ] to come over to play a game.
Get a airsoft gun,or at least a powerful flashlight.
Then your friend hides in your house,the house you know like the back of your hand.
IF your friend gets a shot at you [ or "lights you up" ] then you lost as your no longer able to save yourself OR your family.
Having been forced to clear too many buildings to remember,when I was an LEO.
The only reason I am alive is --------- no one wanted me dead more than they wanted to live.
Simple Shooter
Member
If you carry at home that's your choice and one which you are free to make. I don't know your circumstances and certainly will not judge you for it; it's not my place to do so.
I personally do not carry around the house. There are around 100 burglaries that result in homicide every year. There are 331.9 million people in the US. I have a 1 in 3,319,000 chance of being killed in a home burglary this year. Since most home invasions are carried out by someone known to the victim for purposes of theft of drugs, revenge, personal conflicts, etc. I consider my risk even lower than average as I avoid people like that.
On the other hand, 697,000 Americans will die from heart disease this year. That's almost 7,000 heart deaths for every home invasion death. So, I will have to agree with an earlier point:
I personally do not carry around the house. There are around 100 burglaries that result in homicide every year. There are 331.9 million people in the US. I have a 1 in 3,319,000 chance of being killed in a home burglary this year. Since most home invasions are carried out by someone known to the victim for purposes of theft of drugs, revenge, personal conflicts, etc. I consider my risk even lower than average as I avoid people like that.
On the other hand, 697,000 Americans will die from heart disease this year. That's almost 7,000 heart deaths for every home invasion death. So, I will have to agree with an earlier point:
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There were 2.5 million home burglaries in the US last year. 17% resulted in physical violence. That's 425,000 incidents of violence in the home by intruders.....
Source is FBI crime statistics.
https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/burglary-statistics/
redcon1
member
I think it's 7% actually, according to the article you linked to. I also think your chances of being a victim of violent crime of any kind may be a lot higher than the national average depending on where you happen to live or any number of other circumstances. Your chances of being attacked by a shark are pretty low if you live in Ohio but your chances increase the more often you find yourself swimming in the ocean.
Simple Shooter
Member
And they may also be a lot lower than the national average depending on where you happen to live or any number of other circumstances. I live in a low crime area. I don't sell drugs out of my house. I don't invite strangers over to conduct business which originated on the internet. I don't have any friends, relatives, or coworkers who are prone to criminal activity. I apply aspects of CPTED to my property and home which make it an undesirable target. Does this mean I have 0% chance of being the target of home invasion? No. But is pretty darn close.
I see no need to carry in my home or have a gun hidden in every room. If that's your thing, then by all means do so. It's your house, not mine. You can carry an AR to the bathroom during commercial breaks if you want. It is not my place to judge.
I suppose maybe I have a hang-up with some of the folks on the webernet who think one is not taking their security seriously if they don't carry everywhere in their home and don't carry a full size auto with 2 extra magazines every time they leave the house. Everyone has to make the decision based on their own risk assessment.
redcon1
member
I have a hangup with people telling me I don't need a full size i.e. high cap auto and two extra magazines for self defense. I may, in small part, carry an extra high cap magazine along with my semi-automatic pistol just to spite them as a matter of fact.
The first rule of being in a gun fight is to have a gun. It's become trite and doesn't really convey the importance of the rule. Suzanna Gratia Hupp's case better illustrates the importance.
Suzanna left her concealed handgun in her car one day as she ate lunch with her parents at a Lubby's café in Killeen, Texas. That day just happened to be the day that a crazed gunman crashed his truck through the front window of that café and then proceeded to murder and maim everyone inside including her parents who both died that day. She reached for her gun as soon as it started. Just try to imagine that feeling in her stomach when it wasn't there and then remembering that she had left it in her car outside. Her parents were both killed, possibly as a result of that choice. Imagine the regret she has had to carry around with her for the rest of her life because of that choice to break the first rule.
So I do risk assessments too and I maintain situational awareness and then I carry a gun with me wherever I go unless it's a prohibited establishment that I have no choice but to enter. And the one time I did have to pull my gun out, there were three of them and one of me and I had a 5 shot j frame on me. I started carrying any number of different high capacity Glock pistols after that experience and extra magazines. More gun is more better. That should be rule number 2 of being in a gunfight I think.
That sounds a little passive judgey to me actually but that's OK. When I was in the Army, if our rifle wasn't in our hands, it had to be an arm's reach away and this was enforced. It's a hard habit to break for some perhaps. and, again, Suzanna Hupp.
The Night Rider
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I always thought the first rule of being in a gunfight was not to be in a gunfight if you can avoid it at all
Most of us have no need--most of the time. For me, the need has materialized.
The Night Rider
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I don't carry a gun at home.
My question though is how does it affect you if I do?
How does it affect you if I don't?
How does my decision whichever way make you any more or less safe?
My question though is how does it affect you if I do?
How does it affect you if I don't?
How does my decision whichever way make you any more or less safe?
Simple Shooter
Member
Exactly the point I have been trying to make. My actions do not affect you, nor do yours affect me. I simply put it out there as to my reasoning for when I do or do not carry/have a gun at hand. I make my choices based on my life, not on what someone on youtube or a magazine said. If anyone reading my posts does not understand this, then I accept responsibility and apologize for not communicating clearly enough.
redcon1- I never said you don't have a need for a full size auto and spare mags. If you do, then by all means carry them! You know you circumstances much better than I. And if you want to carry them just because you can, then that's your right, too. Governor DeWine has done a pretty good job of making sure we can do just that here in Ohio.
As for the remark about carrying an AR to the bathroom, I can see it sounded snarky. It was in reference to a former business associate who proudly told everyone he met that he did exactly that. Do I want the armed forces to have their weapons in arms reach? Heck, yeah! Do I feel safer that an accountant takes an AR he only shot once with him to the head? No, but it is his choice. There is a line between prepared and paranoid.
Kleanbore- You say the need has materialized. This is the point I have been making. If you carry around the house it should be because you thought for yourself and came to a rational decision, not because some gun guru says you have to. Maybe the need will dematerialize and you will no longer need to. Or maybe you will determine it is a prudent move for the rest of your life. Either way, you decided based on your circumstances, not because someone said you should.
For quite some time, I have been in a position where I deal with first time and new gun owners. They ask me what they should do. They spend countless hours listening to people on the internet and taking it as gospel because so-and-so is an "expert". I tell them all the same thing I am saying here: Research the topic. Consider both sides. Step back and look at it objectively. Make a decision based on your life circumstances.
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The need "dematerialized" after each event.
redcon1
member
Well, you've been thinking wrong then. I'm sure Suzanna Hupp didn't plan on being in a gunfight the day she found herself unarmed and in a gunfight. Seems like it was pretty unavoidable despite her plans. And, in fact, I'll bet that 99.9% of the civilians that have found themselves in a gunfight didn't actually plan on getting into a gunfight when they woke up that morning. but perhaps your prognosticative powers enable you to know with utter certainty when and where you will need a gun? That's good news for you. You won't ever have to carry a gun again. You can just divine when and where you will need a gun and stay in bed that day.
My point exactly. I never expected those violent home invasions, and I don't know how to predict the need to address one in the future.
If we based all of our decisions on statistical averages, we would not buy fire extinguishers or put on our seatbelts.
Mikhail Weiss
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My 2-cents worth of contribution: do what you can live with.
I live in a low-crime area of an already unusually low-crime city. After a home invasion in which my firearm was in another room (stored separately from ammunition), I changed my habits.
The odds were very much against my ever being victimized by such a crime, yet when the crime occurred, those odds became 100%. Statistical rarity of such crimes prevented nothing.
What I could change, what I did change, was my level of preparation. Now I’m armed when at home. No, that doesn’t mean I carry on my person at all times, but it does mean I have a loaded firearm within reach.
As I said before, and pointedly, do what you can live with.
I live in a low-crime area of an already unusually low-crime city. After a home invasion in which my firearm was in another room (stored separately from ammunition), I changed my habits.
The odds were very much against my ever being victimized by such a crime, yet when the crime occurred, those odds became 100%. Statistical rarity of such crimes prevented nothing.
What I could change, what I did change, was my level of preparation. Now I’m armed when at home. No, that doesn’t mean I carry on my person at all times, but it does mean I have a loaded firearm within reach.
As I said before, and pointedly, do what you can live with.
Phaedrus/69
Member
She had no choice to legally carry, did she? Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I think Texas law at that time prohibited carry in public places. I thought the Luby's shooting was one of the catalysts for shall issue CCW permits or am I remembering it wrong?
The Night Rider
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I'm trying to figure out a connection between what you said and what I said which was If at all possible you avoid the gun fight.
The Night Rider
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How did the Invaders gain access to your house?
None
redcon1
member
You remember right but is that really relevant to the point? If she had known that she was going to need her gun, she would have skipped lunch at Lubby's that day and she certainly wouldn't have left her gun in her car. The only way you can be sure that you will have a gun when you need it is to ALWAYS have a gun. And if you start playing the risk assessment game, you're really just looking for an excuse to not carry your gun. That's fine with me if someone wants to do that but I'm not going to pretend like it's the best solution. The best solution is to find ways to carry your gun rather than to look for reasons not to. My ex's uncle was one of the cops that put lead into that dude at Lubby's btw. according to her anyways.
One, by forcing his way in behind someone else; one by breakage; and one, by using a credit card (I think) in a lock on a mountain cabin.
Cars in the driveway on each occasion.
No shots fired.
I did not carry at home in those days. On one occasion, I was able to retrieve the gun from a bedroom. On the other two, I was in the bedroom with the gun at the time.
redcon1
member
It should be obvious to you by now that it is not always possible to avoid a gunfight. I thought it was pretty clear.
which is not practicable.
redcon1
member
I'm sitting in my home right now. Can you guess what's on my hip? It's a Glock 19x.
The Night Rider
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Sounds to me like perimeter security is the weak spot. If you solve that problem (which I'm sure you have) the odds that you'll ever need a gun in your home again will more than likely plummet
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