Massad Ayoob on Two Aspects of Home Defense

[The Night Rider]

I'm sitting in my home right now. Can you guess what's on my hip? It's a Glock 19x.

I'm sitting at home right now too can you guess what's on my hip? It's a fat black cat

 

[redcon1]

which is not practicable.

It's not that difficult but I will concede that there are times when it is impractical. The problem is that the more often you just accept that it's impractical, the more likely you are to find yourself in the unenviable position of needing your gun and not having it so this should be minimized. The decision to not carry a gun has, potentially, far greater consequences than the decision to carry one.

 

[The Night Rider]

It should be obvious to you by now that it is not always possible to avoid a gunfight. I thought it was pretty clear.

Yes, I'm aware of that. How does that change the validity of what I said?

According to Susanna' Hupp's story her father was one of the first people shot in the Luby's Massacre. She had an opportunity to leave when somebody broke a window in the back of the restaurant but her mother refused. And her mother died.

Now, we don't know that her having a gun would have changed the story, but I'm worried about that her Mom leaving the restaurant would have

 

[redcon1]

I'm sitting at home right now too can you guess what's on my hip? It's a fat black cat

That's your choice but let's not pretend like it's the best choice from a self defense standpoint.

 

[redcon1]

Yes, I'm aware of that. How does that change the validity of what I said?

Like I said, it's your choice but I'm not going to pretend that that choice is the best choice from a self defense perspective. And I'm quite sure that, for the rest of her life, Suzanna will be asking herself how that situation might have turned out differently if she had had her gun in her purse instead of locked up in her car. But you do what you think is right for you and your family. That's just not the right way to think for me and my family though. I look for ways to carry, not reasons not to and that is never going to change.

 

[The Night Rider]

That's your choice but let's not pretend like it's the best choice from a self defense standpoint.

What's The Best Choice from a self-defense standpoint?

 

[Kleanbore]

That's your choice but let's not pretend like it's the best choice from a self defense standpoint.

Night Rider keeps his gun next to him.

 

[The Night Rider]

Night Rider keeps his gun next to him.

But he also puts a lot more T&E into perimeter security then he does into packing heat at home.

Night Rider is currently getting over The Rona and sitting in his living room with his cat, wearing red flannel pajama bottoms and a T-shirt and some stylish red Buffalo Plaid Woolrich slippers. He has no intention of changing out of that outfit and certainly not so he can carry a gun today

Go look up your local police blotter and read the stories of the home invasions.

1. Most of them are targeted. It's not very often that a home invasion just randomly occurs.

2. Quite a few of them begin with the home Invader walking right through an unlocked door.

3. Of the remainder quite a few of them start when the homeowner opens the door without verifying who's on the other side of it.

Simply locking your front door will stop far more home invasions than a gun will.

 

[redcon1]

What's The Best Choice from a self-defense standpoint?

Having a loaded FN FAL an arms length away from you and a LBV loaded up with several extra magazines.
ETA: I would love to sit here and do this for a few more hours but i do have Christmas stuff to do today so I'm popping smoke and extricating myself from this dialectic. You have a good day and I do mean that.

 

[The Night Rider]

Having a loaded FN FAL an arms length away from you and a LBV loaded up with several extra magazines.

Not an M110A2?

 

[Kleanbore]

1. Most of them are targeted. It's not very often that a home invasion just randomly occurs.

"Most" does not impress me. None of ours were.

 

[The Night Rider]

"Most" does not impress me. None of ours were.

Regardless of whether or not it impresses you it should be part of your risk assessment.

Another part of your risk assessment should be "What the hell are you doing that's causing that many people to pick you for a home invasion?"

 

[Kleanbore]

Another part of your risk assessment should be "What the hell are you doing that's causing that many people to pick you for a home invasion?"

Nothing. Pure chance.

Good neighborhoods, car in driveway.

One guy was following a woman who happened to stop at the house. One tried to break into several houses that night. Another was a drugged hippie attracted to the only cabin in the area.

 

[Simple Shooter]

I'm sitting at home right now too can you guess what's on my hip? It's a fat black cat

I am in my home office with a calico at my feet. (And a Sig P229SAO on the desk because I just got home a few minutes ago.) Maybe black cat vs. calico can replace the 9mm vs .45acp debate? I am sure we can all agree on one or the other...

 

[Phaedrus/69]

You remember right but is that really relevant to the point? If she had known that she was going to need her gun, she would have skipped lunch at Lubby's that day and she certainly wouldn't have left her gun in her car.

This THR! Five pages in who remembers what the point was? It seems the discussion was meandering around the idea of always carrying in the home, which is broadly legal almost everywhere in the USA (that is, if you can have a gun at all). So carrying at home or not is at your whim whereas not having your CCW in public is a choice between following the law or violating the law, knowing there may well be dire consequences to either choice.

 

[The Night Rider]

Nothing. Pure chance.

Good neighborhoods, car in driveway.

One guy was following a woman who happened to stop at the house. One tried to break into several houses that night. Another was a drugged hippie attracted to the only cabin in the area.

Okay. I never said you shouldn't carry a gun at home. I never said it was completely unnecessary.

The point that I've been trying to make is that it shouldn't be the priority point of your home defense.

The other point I've been trying to make is that ice so much emphasize perimeter security and hardening the perimeter and practicing opsec so I can sit at home in my pajamas with my cat and not worry about wearing a gun belt.

 

[Kleanbore]

I never said you shouldn't carry a gun at home. I never said it was completely unnecessary.

It isn't necessary at all--until the need arises.

The point that I've been trying to make is that it shouldn't be the priority point of your home defense.

Of course.

The other point I've been trying to make is that ice so much emphasize perimeter security and hardening the perimeter and practicing opsec so I can sit at home in my pajamas with my cat and not worry about wearing a gun belt.

I do not wear a gun when I wear pajamas. I carry when I leave the house, unless I am going to place where I cannot. I have a rig that is comfortable all day. I prefer to not have to put it on when I leave the house and take it off and put it somewhere when I return.

 

[The Night Rider]

I do not wear a gun when I wear pajamas.

I suspect I wear pajamas/ Board Shorts/ Sweats a much larger portion of my day than you do.

I carry when I leave the house, unless I am going to place where I cannot.

So do I but again, I suspect that looks a little different for me than it does for you.

I have a rig that is comfortable all day.

I don't. I mean, I'm sure my "Rig" is comfortable but I'm not wearing street clothes at home if I don't have to. I'm sure as hell not wearing a belt.

I prefer to not have to put it on when I leave the house and take it off and put it somewhere when I return.

Retirement has given me enough latitude that I don't have to be in and out of the house all day. When I come home I'm home and I'm(most likely) not going back out

 

[Tinman357]

I've been a student of Mas for many years. His advice is well thought out and based on his own experiance as well as lessons learned through his investigations, research, and interviews.

I've always carried at home since the early 80's and continue that practice until today. Mostly for the reasons cited by Mas. It's good advice, but people have to make their own choices based on their individual circumstances.

On a side note, I really hate when people use a southern accent when describing statements that are considered "stupid". I have a doctorate and a masters degree and to this day, whenever I speak, people automatically assume that I'm an uneducated redneck.

Mas is pretty well known for being dismissive of southern people in general. I like his videos and have great respect for his professional achievements. But his snark is off-putting to me.

Back on topic. These days, with violent criminals being released within hours of arrest, it's even more prudent to carry at home. Get the ladies in your life intrested in providing their personal safety. Take it from me as a father, the nightmare hell you will go through while listening to your daughter describe the details of her rape is only surpassed by the nightmare she lived through. (for a while) That is a trauma that very few recover from. (she didn't)

 

[Kleanbore]

My firearm stayed in the bedroom for decades, ready for use--if I were in the bedroom when I needed it.

I read a review of a Charter Arms .44 upgrade, written by one of the gun writers. He was considering getting a second one to keep in his workshop in case he needed a gun when he was in there.

I thought about the idea of keeping a firearm downstairs, but I didn't like the idea of having it accessible by visitors young or old, invited or not.

Someone on TFL posted about feeling a cold draft on his neck while listening to headphones. Two drug-impaired youths came out of his kitchen. They had entered the wrong apartment during a brief moment when the door was unlocked when his girlfriend was taking something out to the car. They could easily have armed themselves with knives from the kitchen. The discussion was about carrying at home.

Until that moment, I would have characterized the idea as preposterous. But--I had just started carrying concealed, and I started carrying at home.

I keep the doors locked, and we have motion-sensing security cameras trained on every opening. They detect and record, but they cannot defend.

I do not place myself at the door to investigate the unknown.

 

[Old Hobo]

"The linked video covers two subjects. The first involves the carrying of a defensive firearm on one's person while at home, ..."
by member Kleanbore

I often carry when at home ... actually, most of the time. When I do, the handgun is a small one -- totally non-obtrusive.

Its sole purpose is to give me time to get me to a true home-defense weapon. (All of my other firearms are locked in safes.)

Here is some info on where I'm coming from: I'm over retirement age. I have BAD arthritis and often use a cane (especially to stand up). There was a home invasion less than a mile from my house (city low-lifes hitting the wrong house in tiny-town America). I have decades of experience using firearms. Once had my NRA certifications as Handgun Instructor and Rifle Instructor. I am totally comfortable around firearms / was raised around them / was taught rigid safety rules as a grammar school kid / captain of my high-school rifle team ... . As to personality type, I am NOT a panic person. Decades ago I had a large drunk uber-idiot try to get into my house. I didn't panic. Racked pump shotgun and he got back in his "disabled" car and drove off .

"Know thyself"

If you have a weapon on your person, you MUST be profoundly comfortable with it. It must be a part of your brain's body-image. Your weapon must be of superior quality and have absolutely zero safety concerns about its condition and operation.

Look at your life. Look in the mirror. Evaluate you yourself. You MUST NOT be a panic person. Have you ever dealt with horrible situations, life-threatening situations? Me, I've watched people panic; seen them freeze. That can't be you. AND, you cannot be a hothead! See yourself for who you really are. And for heavens sake, NEVER drink while carrying. Intoxicated people morph into someone else.
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[Simple Shooter]

If you have a weapon on your person, you MUST be profoundly comfortable with it. It must be a part of your brain's body-image. Your weapon must be of superior quality and have absolutely zero safety concerns about its condition and operation.

Look at your life. Look in the mirror. Evaluate you yourself. You MUST NOT be a panic person. Have you ever dealt with horrible situations, life-threatening situations? Me, I've watched people panic; seen them freeze. That can't be you. AND, you cannot be a hothead! See yourself for who you really are. And for heavens sake, NEVER drink while carrying. Intoxicated people morph into someone else.
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The wisest advise in the whole string. Thank you, Old Hobo.