Match M1A, AR-10, or DMPS LR-308 for tackdriving?

[CanonNinja]

Looking to get a good start or a head start over the others in a .308 tackdriver. Currently looking at Loaded or National Match M1As, AR-10/Ts and the bull-barreled DMPS LR-308. What's the experience with these from real-world owners and shooters? I will be shooting 300-600 yards regularly, and need something worthy for good ammo and decent with surplus. I have my eyes on a bolt rifle for real hardcore pinpoint shooting, but I have too much so-so milsurp to go through and I dont want to ruin a custom bolt gun with it.

 

[rbernie]

I have a standard 20" Armalite AR10 (post ban A4), and I like it OK. I can't compare the models you're looking at since I don't have any of 'em.

But I have to ask - why build a semi-auto just to blow ammo? For the cost of any of these options, you could take that money and buy a Savage 10FP in 308 ($500), put it a B&C DuraMaxx stock ($120), buy a second replacement barrel for the Savage for when you shoot out the first one ($150 for a factory tube), and still have a bunch of money left over for ammo or to use as a downpayment on a GAP bolt-action for 'real hardcore pinpoint shooting'.

 

[CanonNinja]

It's not really to "blow" ammo, but I don't feel like feeding $1/round ammo to anything in large amounts other than my .50. Looking to get something semi-auto that's spot-on and for occasional plinking/hunting/target shooting. I want a bolt rifle down the line, for sure, but I want a semi-auto first.

 

[ArmedBear]

For the price of a MOA semiauto, you can get a one-jagged-hole bolt gun. And for handloading, which is something that those interested in tackdriving accuracy do, a bolt is far superior. And for cleaning the barrel every few shots, which is also something that tackdriver types do, a bolt action is the only way to go.

So your question seems like a non-sequitur.

 

[CanonNinja]

lets forget for a second I mentioned ammo or bolt guns... I'm looking for a good MOA semi-auto/SA platform. I have a bolt gun in the works, I'm just replacing a .308 battle rifle I have now with a more long-range semi-auto shooter

 

[jem375]

The DPMS 308's have been getting good press and that will be my next rifle.........

 

[rbernie]

Well, let's do this: I can get MOA to subMOA performance out of my AR10/A4 with most any 150gr-168gr SP handloads. It's got a Jard trigger and a JP float tube. The stock triggers on just about any of your listed options will need to be replaced, so make sure that you can get one for the platform of your choice. I chose the JP tube because its larger ID allowed it to fit over the adjustable gas tube; I believe that AR10's are generally overgassed and I have chosen to cut down on the gas system to the point where it'll just barely function on the softest MilSurp I can find.

The mags are cheaper for the Armalite than the DPMS. The DPMS LR HBARSs don't have a forward assist or a brass deflector; their 'standard' LRs have both, and the Armalite has the deflector but still no forward assist. I would prefer a rifle with both a brass deflector and a forward assist.

The 20" barrel of a standard A4 will sacrifice about 100fps over the 24" tube of the AR10-T/DPMS LR308 bull model, which will make a difference in 300+ yard trajectory. In exchange for the loss of some trajectory past 300 yards, I have a 11lb rifle that's tote-able and still useful for things other than prone/benchrest target shooting. I have heard that getting a 24" 308 to run reliably is no small trick; be sure that you're comfortable with the post-sales support structure for whichever version to decide to buy.

Oh, and by the way - you are going to HATE LIFE the first time you light off an 308 AR rifle from a bench if it's got the traditional AR style hard plastic waffle/trap door buttstock. OUCH!

 

[Mumbles_45]

I am also looking to get a long range .308 semi automatic. I have definately decided against the M1A and all its variations, and had pretty much settled on an Armalite AR-10(T), until I borrowed a friend's gun magazine (guns and weapons for law enforcement I think) and saw the Armalite AR-10 SuperSASS. It doesn't cost too much more than an AR-10(T) and I like that it has rails, and is designed with supressor use in mind, as I intend to someday get a supressor for whatever I decide on.

post #5 cracked me up

 

[byf43]

(Pre-Ban) Springfield Armory, Inc. M1-A Standard, accurized by Fulton, a BUNCH of years ago.

A couple of the installed options:
Kreiger Heavy Match barrel
Fajen walnut stock, glass bedded
NM trigger job

Here are two groups fired at 200yds with handloads.
Loading data 'airbrushed' from the samples.

The circle within the square target is one of my designs. The circle is 1" in diameter. The square is 1".

Rifle was scoped with Leupold 4-12x Vari-X III on a Springfield 3rd gen. mount.

 

[Mumbles_45]

the Armalite has the deflector but still no forward assist

did not know that. Thats unacceptable (for me). If I'm gonna spend that kind of money on a rifle I want things the way I want them.

Oh, and by the way - you are going to HATE LIFE the first time you light off an 308 AR rifle from a bench if it's got the traditional AR style hard plastic waffle/trap door buttstock. OUCH!

Really? I wouldn't have thought, the AR seems like a pretty softly recoiling design. Is it worse, than say, an M-14 in stock form?

 

[CanonNinja]

I'm torn between trying to find a good Armalite and getting just above dealer cost on a DPMS. M1As are looking to be a little out of my budget at the moment, so I might just start looking at the ARs.

And Bernie, I think I got recoil covered... My PTR I have now has the HK sliding stock, nicknamed lovingly the "meat grinder". But with the A2 stock, I have a .50BMG on an AR lower, and I haven't gotten the recoil pad on it yet. 10 shots and I'm done for the day

Also, I think if I order the DPMS, I'll see if I can have the A3 upper receiver instead of the standard no-frills job.

 

[grizz]

AR-10s:

I've got the DPMS LR-308, my brother has the Armalite AR-10(T). Both are VERY accurate rifles. I opted for the upgraded upper receiver on my DPMS, so it now has a shell deflector, dust cover, and forward assist.

The DPMS is much less expensive, but to make it a really nice rifle, I'd suggest a factory trigger upgrade (either the 2 stage national match, or the JP adjustable trigger).

Don't expect to carry these rifles around all day in the field as they are super heavy. Great benchrest rifles, or for the hunting blind/ tree stand.

my $0.02

 

[CanonNinja]

AR-10s:
I've got the DPMS LR-308, my brother has the Armalite AR-10(T). Both are VERY accurate rifles. I opted for the upgraded upper receiver on my DPMS, so it now has a shell deflector and forward assist.

The DPMS is much less expensive, but to make it a really nice rifle, I'd suggest a factory trigger upgrade (either the 2 stage national match, or the JP adjustable trigger).

Don't expect to carry these rifles around all day in the field as they are super heavy. Great benchrest rifles, or for the hunting blind/ tree stand.

my $0.02
grizz is online now Report Bad Post

how much did you get into the DPMS for, and was there a big delay on getting the AP4 receiver instead?

 

[rockstar.esq]

This won't be popular...

I read an article intended to extoll the virtues of the M25 "White Feather" which is the most pimped out M1A springy makes. To compare it against something, the author took a bone stock wally world Remington 7400 with a bushnell cheapy scope against the M25 with a horus vision scope attached. You'd have to read carefully however the accuracy AT ALL RANGES of the 7400 was better than the M25. Given that the complete 7400 cost less than 1/3 of the M25 not including the scope I'd have to color myself unimpressed.

I know nothing of the AR-10's nor have I personally shot an M1A. I have shot a 7400 and I found it to be easy to shoot well offhand.

Folks please don't ream me for repeating an article I read that put the M1A in poor light. Additionally I'd like to go on record saying that I'd love an M1A or four if it wasn't for the staggering price.

 

[grizz]

My DPMS LR-308 took about 9 weeks to deliver, but it has several custom features that required a special build.

Custom features:
1. Upgraded A3 style upper receiver (dust flap, shell deflector, forward assist)
2. Cryogenically treated barrel (some people think this improves accuracy)
3. Quad rail forearm (just because)
4. 2-stage national match trigger (MUCH better than stock)

Total cost was $1400 (still $400 cheaper than the Armalite AR-10(T)
Shooting the same ammo (Black Hills 168g) and with the same optics, my DPMS shoots a little bit better than my brother's AR-10(T).

I believe a stock LR-308 runs in the neighborhood of $950.

Also, you might want to give Rock River Arms a call to see when their new long-range AR-10s are going to be available. RRA is a top-quality manufacturer of AR-15s and I'm sure their AR-10s will be awesome guns as well.

 

[CanonNinja]

anyone else have input?

 

[longhorngunman]

RRA should be out with their line of AR .308 rifles by early next year. One will be a 26" SS varmint model with a suggested price of $1350. Probably will sell for a good $100 less than that. And they have the forward assist reciever and come standard with RRA's NM trigger and will take $5 FAL mags instead of the $40-50 DPMS mags. With that said by most all accounts the DPMS 24"SS is one bad mofo when it comes to accuracy and is much cheaper than the Armalite's and M1A's.

 

[CanonNinja]

last comparison... tomorrow I pay for either one.. either a like-new Loaded Springfield w/wood stock and USGI bolt or a brand-new DPMS LR-308 w/A3 upper and 24" fluted barrel... both rifles within $100 of eachother.


thoughts?

 

[AR-180]

Go with the DPMS. Mine is really accurate, and mounting a scope is easy.

Maintaining accuracy with an M14 design is more difficult. Mounting a scope well is way more difficult.

 

[CanonNinja]

Well, it was hard, but I just passed up a VERY clean Loaded M1A w/USGI bolt for the DPMS. I'll put the leftover money into my bolt-gun fund. I'm gonna kick myself for this, but I hope the first time I compare the DPMS to my friend's NM M1A at 300 I see why the DPMS was the better buy for the money

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

All else being equal, tha AR pattern rifles will be more accurate than the m14 pattern rifles. The ARs are easier to accurize, and can sport better triggers and are easier to scope. If accuracy is your only concern, the AR is clearly the eay to go.

As for which AR, the Armalite or the DPMS, is more accurate, I haven't a clue. I suspect both would perform quite well. With a properly developed handload, I bet both rifles can outperform their shooters.

 

[DogBonz]

I'd go with the DPMS

I have one of their AR's and it is great. I've also heard good things about their 308's.

I know that you have mentioned ammo cost as a factor, but have you thought about the 6.5 Grendel? I'm getting mine soon. That 123 Lapua is a really nasty long range round. Some will say better than match .308's. I will let you guys know as soon as I get mine.

 

[CanonNinja]

I have one of their AR's and it is great. I've also heard good things about their 308's.

I know that you have mentioned ammo cost as a factor, but have you thought about the 6.5 Grendel? I'm getting mine soon. That 123 Lapua is a really nasty long range round. Some will say better than match .308's. I will let you guys know as soon as I get mine.

I have probably 3-4k easy on surplus .308, in a few different flavors. I have enough reloadable brass to last me a few years, so I wanted to stick with a .308 for now, and maybe go .338 Lapua later.

 

[Mumbles_45]

cool. I'd be very interested in hearing how it performs, and what your thoughts on it are after you've had some time on it.

 

[wally]

AR10 and DPMS mag interchange?

Do the DPMS .380 and AR10 20-round mags interchange?

AR10 mags seem a bit easier to find around here right now.

--wally.