Mathmatical recoil question

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popopine

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Hello, I'm new here and i thought i'd throw this question to ya cause i can't figure it out (and smoke is starting to come out of my ears).

Which creates more kick (in a 20 ga) 2 3/2" 20 pellets of #3 buckshot at 1175 fps or 3" 18 pellets of #2 at 1100 fps?

:banghead:
-Popo
 
The shot weight and charge are probably very similar. I wouldn't think there'd be a perceivable difference. Magnum buckshot and slug loads, OTOH.....
 
Here the equation for such a calculation:

[(MV + 4700P) ÷ 7000]² ÷ [64.3481] ÷ [W] = Free recoil energy

M = bullet weight in grains
V = bullet velocity in fps
P = propellant weight in grains
W = firearm weight in pounds

As for felt recoil, that's an entirely different issue altogether as it is one of perception and a rather subjective one at that.
 
MG*VG=MB*VB+MC*VC where
MG=mass of the gun
VG=velocity of the gun
MB=mass of the bulllet
VB=velocity of the bullet
MC=mass of the powder charge
VC=velocity of the powder charge
I = MB*VC where I is the impluse {recoil} of the gun
#2 buckshot [.27"] pellet wt. 29.4 grns {18*29.4=529.2grs.}
#3 buckshot [.25'] pellet wt. 23.3 grns {20*23.3=466grs.}
without the weight of the gun [although constant] I'd say #2 but run the numbers
#2buck 1100ft*sec*529.2grs.=582120ft/sec/grs.
#3buck 1175ft*sec*466grs. =547550ft/sec/grs.
Does that help, or has the smoke broken out into flame?
7000grs.=1lb. therefore
582120/7000=83.2ft/sec/lb
547550/7000=78.2ft/sec/lb
Can 5ft/sec/lb be felt?
NOTE; formula, pellet weights, conversion, etc. from NRA Firearms Fact Book third edition chapter on recoil pg.213 is well worth reading
 
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20 pellets of #3 weigh 25 grains x 20 = 500 grains @ 1,175 FPS.
18 pellets of #2 weigh 30 grains x 18 = 540 grains at 1,100 FPS.

Lets call the ejecta weight ( powder gas, wad, and shot buffer) another 50 grains.

Recoil in a 7 pound gun would be too close to call.

Recoil impulse = 3.49 & 3.52 lb/sec.
Recoil velocity = 16.07 & 16.2 FPS.
Free recoil = 28.08 & 28.54 ft/lb.

Here is a recoil calculator you can play with.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

How it really feels though is beyond simple math.
Different powder burn rates and different wad cushioning design can make the two loads actually feel worlds apart to your shoulder.

rc
 
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Wow. Thank you for solving that for me guys. While it appears the difference on paper is nominal, i'll have to check out the felt recoil and let you know the findings. My hunch is that i'll feel the 2 3/4 less. (trying to get the wife more comfortable with follow-up rounds on the 20ga.)

Now i'll go put my head in a tub of ice water.
 
Bob Brister's "Shotgunning The Art and the Science" (2nd Ed.)

See if you can get hold of reading Bob Brister's "Shotgunning The Art and the Science" (2nd Ed.). While it was written in the 70's (?), it's still relevant. I've reproduced some of it below. He delves into recoil from both a physics perspective as well as "felt" recoil.

Briefly, the effective kick of the gun may have little to do with the physics of recoil. It can be that the comb of the stock is too high or too sharp for the shooter. Weight of the gun is another factor. p.99 expands on this.

On that same page, Brister's 125 lb wife is showed firing an Ithaca Mag 10 loaded with 10 gauge 3 1/2 inch magnum loads. How could she handle something like that? A few reasons. One, the Mag 10 is an autoloader. Second, the gun weighs around 11 lbs.

Brister states that for a given load, approximate recoil energy varies inversely with gun weight. On page 105, there's a table that shows recoil of different shotshell loads. Excepting gauge, if everything else about a shell is the same in terms of shot weight, powder, etc., a 20 gauge shotgun weighing 6 lbs 8 oz firing that shell would have 4 ft-lbs more recoil energy than a 12 gauge shotgun weighing 7 lb 8 oz.

Specific to your 20 gauge, the chart says a shell with 2 3/4 drams of powder and 1 oz of shot weight would generate 21 ft-lbs of recoil. Commercially, the Remington Wingmaster HD 20 gauge shell load with #4 or #6 shot would be near this. (I don't know how much powder Remington puts in the shell; the website lists fps instead.)

Very good book. Tons of information no matter your skill level. In closing, I hope this helps.
 
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Ha! I happened to have shot both loads last week in a Rem 870 20 gauge "youth model". To me, there is no perceptible recoil difference. (And no math was used in that evaluation. Test. Test. Test. Retest. Compete.)
 
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