Mauser enough for bears?

[Cosmoline]

8x57JS with SP non-Saami loads (ie European or handloads) in the 180 weight range or greater should be fine, assuming your rifle is loaded and kept at the ready. I found the best way to carry a Mauser on the trail was in the classic German infantry style--either across the belly barrel down or over the shoulder barrel forward. With the belly carry, you can attach a quick release device from a tack store to the front end of the sling that allows you to simply press the release to free your rifle up. The Mauser then hops up to your shoulder. The only caveat I have is to be careful about using 8mm bullets for handloads. I found out quite a few of these were designed for the 8mm Rem. Mag., NOT the 8x57JS. That means they might not expand at non-magnum velocities.

If you use a shotgun, make sure to use Brenneke/Rottweil style hardcast magnum slugs. US slugs tend to be softer Foster-style and are for DEER, not for brown bear. The Brenneke 3" magnum slug generates over 3,000 ft. lbs. at the muzzle and will not deform nearly as much as a soft lead slug.

The only US made slug that uses the European style hardcast slug I know of is the Remington Buckhammer.

 

[TMM]

the biggest problem is that it's bolt action. unless you practice to rack that bolt real fast, you might not stop Mr. Bear. the mini-14 would almost be preferrable, with the high mag cap and rapid fire. with FMJ you could probably pierce the skull. empty a mag into his/her head, and it just might feel like dieing. i'd prefer a FAL (.308).

~TMM

 

[Cosmoline]

I don't know about a .223 for bear defense. I know the Yupik folks in the bush give griz "belly aches" with Mini-14's to run them off, but they're not shooting a charging animal. The FMJ bullets have a well-known (and even advertised) tendency to fail completely when they hit even a human-size target. This is good for making explosive wounds, but with something as big as a coastal brownie I would be afraid you'd just blow off a chunk of the bear's face and pretty much guarantee your own death.

A Mauser can certainly be carried cocked and locked, so the critical first shot would be no slower than an autoloader.

Also, any idea that you would have time to empty a magazine, or even get more than one or two shots off on a charging bruin is unrealistic.

 

[KriegHund]

you'd be hard pressed to beat old Turk surplus.

Excellent, as i got 80 rnds of it with the rifle. Shot of about 20, so i have plenty left.

After reading the rest of the posts, i think ill go with the Mauser.

 

[TMM]

yup, Mauser dosn't seem too bad of a decision. however, someone mentioned how having it lying on the floor of your tent would be a bad idea... i second that. bring it around with you. get a good first headshot and i think Mr. bear will go down fairly fast.
~TMM

 

[Crosshair]

All I have to say is that a Mauser sure beats a sharp stick.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Sure the 8mm will do fine if loaded with a good soft point bullet.

This thread wasstarted by someone from Colorado... just so you know the LAST grilly killed here was in the 80's and while there has been an occasional dubious sighting you chances of seeing a costal Alaskan sized bear here are slim and none.

Black bear, on the other hand are pretty common and when you see them they usually have interest in sticking around to be seen...

However, any bear trying to get into your tent at night is a bad bear.

a 12 ga. shotgun is the preffered method for bear defense, but ANY centerfire rifle or 30-30 cal of bigger will work.

The mini 14 is a pop gun on large animals. And it's not legal for big game hunting here. The mini 30 is.

Check with the Colorado Division Of Wildlife about 'bear defense' before taking any course of action.

They can teach you how to minimize your chances of a bad bear encounter.

Rob

 

[H&Hhunter]

OK....

First of all the mauser style bolt action rifle next to a double gun is the definition of a dangerous game rifle. Guys have been using them with great effect for over 100 years in the dangerous game hunting and culling teams in Africa with fantastic success.

A man whom knows how to use a bolt rifle is so fast with one that the speed difference concerning controlled aimed shots is negligible between a good bolt man with a good bolt gun and a semi auto.

If you haven't seen a true riflemen in action with a true bolt gun it's truly a one of the more beautiful and fluid art forms of the rifle.

As far as the 8MM mauser goes it wouldn't be my first choice as a big bear stopper but I sure as hell wouldn't hesitate to use it in bear country either.

As far as ammunition choices someone mentioned using hollow points,, NO NO NO NO!!! Do not use frangible fragmenting bullets on thick skinned heavy boned animals like a brown bear. There is one hollow point I'd use and that is a Barnes X. Of course that's really not a hollow point in the classic sense. You want a premium controlled expansion bullet in the heaviest weight you can get for your caliber. Penetration and bone breaking ability are key on large dangerous animals. Big pissed off bears do not respond to "shock" from a light high velocity bullets. You need penetration and the ability to crush bones to physically stop a big critter in a charge.

Mini 14 in .223 BAD!!

.375 H&H 300gr GOOD!!

Buck shot of any kind BAD!!

Breneke slug GOOD!!

Finally when involved in a charge there are several things that happen that most guys don't understand.

First,

Serious deadly charges happen from close range in tight cover at nearly unbelievable speed. Shot placement is difficult at best and impossible at worst. So more important than anything is familiarity with your weapon and the sighting system. Your rifle should be an extension of your body that you can use with fluid grace and pure reflex when needed.

The other thing that most people don't think about on an animal that is shorter than you in other words you are not shooting straight into but at a down angle is leading the nose of the critter whether it be a bear or a lion or a leopard if you have time to aim and track the critter you need to place the front sight in front of the nose of the animal or you'll shoot in to far back.

That is why given the time and circumstances you'll see some old hands at DG hunting drop to one knee when facing a charge from a lion so as to cut out the angle giving them a straight on level shot. I've also seen this done once on a home video on a buffalo charge.

Just one more jewel of wisdom. More and more Professional hunters are getting away from buckshot as it is a notoriously poor performer on anything but the lightest game animals. There are very few if any PH's out there who use it on back up for lions and less and less who use it on leopards. Both of these animals are softer and lighter than your average grizzly.

Just some food for thought.

This post is refering to grizzly's and Brown bears as the incident that was spoken of was a Grizz in AK.

A black bear is not in the same catgory.

Greg

 

[cracked butt]

The 8mm is good enough if its the biggest you have.

Leave the .223 at home for shooting stuff it was meant for- animals between the size of a chipmunk and poodle.

 

[spacemanspiff]

yes, the 8mm would be a good candidate against an alaskan bear.

but those skinny wimpy lumps of fur you all call bears down in the lower 48 are another story. just carry a big stick and tap them on the snout.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

i would say the mini 14 is not the way to go.

Assuming you have nothing else short of a sharpened rock nearby, it IS better than nothing. Shoot quickly and shoot often. If it gets within 6 feet and you have the presence of mind, there's not shame in trying to bump fire

 

[Joejojoba111]

"I found the best way to carry a Mauser on the trail was in the classic German infantry style--either across the belly barrel down or over the shoulder barrel forward."

I don't understand the second style, are there any pictures easily available?

 

[Cosmoline]

I'll check around and dig some up off the web archives. You can often see the method with German troops from either world war when they're NOT in formal marching order. Imagine the Mauser simply being pulled around the body the classic barrel-up position, until the rifle is sitting across the chest and belly with the barrel pointed down. It's not something US troops ever seem to have done much, but it works well. I used to carry my Mauser and K-31 like this, with the addition of the quick release at the attachment point of the front sling swivel. Instead of having to haul the rifle off your back, you simply hit the botton and the rifle pops up into an off-hand stance. I don't think the Germans had quick release snaps, mind you. They just found it easier to carry the Mausers across the front.

 

[Omni04]

rpg!

 

[Zundfolge]

Really the best "bear defense" is to bring along a guy with a limp ... preferably someone you don't much care for. Then, you don't have to outrun the bear, just him



I'd think the 8mm would be plenty ... especially since there are plenty of guys who pack .44mag revolvers when hiking in bear country.

And like Dr. Rob said, you're not likely to come across any Alaskan Grizzly sized bears here in Colorado.

You are almost as likely to run into a cougar as a bear out here ... but you're MOST likely to run into a pack of feral dogs (for which the 8mm should be plenty).

I pack a .40S&W when hiking the trails around here.

 

[browningguy]

Buy some of the S&B ammo for the 8mm and you'll be in good shape. The S&B is cheap and reasonably accurate. I used their 173 gr. SPCE load in my 7x57 for hunting until I started handloading.