I know this topic maybe over done in forums, but it is a topic that came up recently at work and I thought I would try and start an intelligent discussion about the subject.
The flowing only pertains to Black Bear, and are from personal experience, research, and discussion.
Please comment or correct on anything that is incorrect
I will say I lived around PA black bear all my life, and I have them in my yard once and a while. And 99.99% they are harmless, and most of the time they move before you even see them. With that said bears are wild animals, and any wild animal is unpredictable. A good example is Steve Erwin with the stingray. So to be prepared is always the way to be. I for one never go in the woods without a gun in the group. Even as a kid we at least had a 22 for snakes and rabid varmints.
The fact is with the black bear population is out of control up over 400% since the 70’s there are going to be more attacks. And there are a lot more attacks then you hear on the news. Attacks are usually only reported if it results in death, and only then if it is a kid or in a populated area. Bears will attack for many reasons, if they are sick, hungry, or if they feel threatened.
The best bear attack prevention is staying calm. Don’t run, don’t provoke them, and don’t shot until you are sure you are going to be attacked. If you shot it, it will attack you. Don’t take food in the woods, and make noise.
So now what if a bear does attack…….
There are three types of autoloaders to carry
1. autoloaders to hunt black bear
2. autoloaders when the chance of being attacked are high (hunting backup or camping)
3. general woods autoloader where bear attacks are slim to none
First there is a big difference between what is ok for defense, but not for hunting. Where one gun might kill a bear, but would take 6+ shots that would not be humane for hunting, but acceptable for self-defense. For the sake of argument I will only use the most common loadings 9mm 357sig 40s&w 45ACP 10mm, of course there are others but these are the most common owned.
The only one out of them that would be acceptable for hunting, backup, and camping would be a 10mm. I will note you best defense is not an autoloader or rifle. You best defense is a shotgun with slugs, they are easy to aim, cycle rounds, and a 12 gauge slug will kill almost anything within 50 yards.
Now for self-defense, this is a lot different. It just has to get the job done, and doesn’t have to be pretty.
I know a hunter that uses a 357mag as a backup for archery for black bear. He said it never takes more than a couple of shots to finish a black bear if needed. I don’t think anyone will argue that a 357mag will efficiently kill a black bear. They are strong, but not bullet proof.
So
9mm - the bullet size ie big enough, the same as a 357. But there isn’t a sigle load on the market that would kill a black bear. The +p+ has enough fps, but the jhp would not get enough penetration. But if you would self-load to +p+ with a 147 grain FMJ it would kill a bear.
357sig - any quality FMJ round will do the job. Buffalo bore’s site even claims their new 125 grain load will crush a bear’s skull or shoulder bones. Also the PA game commission just switched to Glock 31s. I heard they carry one JHP to stun animals then FMJ to kill, but that is just what I heard.
40S&W - this is the first load I would feel comfortable with. Double tap sells two 200 grain FMJ loads that are over 1000 fps. The most common recommended size for hunting black bear is a 30+ caliber round, at least 200 grain, and at least 1000 fps. This meets all those requirements. This round would certainly take down a black bear. I have found several cases where black bears were killed in defense by 40 s&w just search the internet. And those were probably much lighter loads than the Double tap hunting ones.
And lastly the 45acp, there was a hunting guide that has a website that wrote a long story on his experiences with hunting black bears with 45acps. He said it would take 3-4 shots, but once again this is in regards to self-defense not hunting. 3-4 shots are not acceptable for hunting.
Sorry for the long post, but it is what we talked about at work.
The flowing only pertains to Black Bear, and are from personal experience, research, and discussion.
Please comment or correct on anything that is incorrect
I will say I lived around PA black bear all my life, and I have them in my yard once and a while. And 99.99% they are harmless, and most of the time they move before you even see them. With that said bears are wild animals, and any wild animal is unpredictable. A good example is Steve Erwin with the stingray. So to be prepared is always the way to be. I for one never go in the woods without a gun in the group. Even as a kid we at least had a 22 for snakes and rabid varmints.
The fact is with the black bear population is out of control up over 400% since the 70’s there are going to be more attacks. And there are a lot more attacks then you hear on the news. Attacks are usually only reported if it results in death, and only then if it is a kid or in a populated area. Bears will attack for many reasons, if they are sick, hungry, or if they feel threatened.
The best bear attack prevention is staying calm. Don’t run, don’t provoke them, and don’t shot until you are sure you are going to be attacked. If you shot it, it will attack you. Don’t take food in the woods, and make noise.
So now what if a bear does attack…….
There are three types of autoloaders to carry
1. autoloaders to hunt black bear
2. autoloaders when the chance of being attacked are high (hunting backup or camping)
3. general woods autoloader where bear attacks are slim to none
First there is a big difference between what is ok for defense, but not for hunting. Where one gun might kill a bear, but would take 6+ shots that would not be humane for hunting, but acceptable for self-defense. For the sake of argument I will only use the most common loadings 9mm 357sig 40s&w 45ACP 10mm, of course there are others but these are the most common owned.
The only one out of them that would be acceptable for hunting, backup, and camping would be a 10mm. I will note you best defense is not an autoloader or rifle. You best defense is a shotgun with slugs, they are easy to aim, cycle rounds, and a 12 gauge slug will kill almost anything within 50 yards.
Now for self-defense, this is a lot different. It just has to get the job done, and doesn’t have to be pretty.
I know a hunter that uses a 357mag as a backup for archery for black bear. He said it never takes more than a couple of shots to finish a black bear if needed. I don’t think anyone will argue that a 357mag will efficiently kill a black bear. They are strong, but not bullet proof.
So
9mm - the bullet size ie big enough, the same as a 357. But there isn’t a sigle load on the market that would kill a black bear. The +p+ has enough fps, but the jhp would not get enough penetration. But if you would self-load to +p+ with a 147 grain FMJ it would kill a bear.
357sig - any quality FMJ round will do the job. Buffalo bore’s site even claims their new 125 grain load will crush a bear’s skull or shoulder bones. Also the PA game commission just switched to Glock 31s. I heard they carry one JHP to stun animals then FMJ to kill, but that is just what I heard.
40S&W - this is the first load I would feel comfortable with. Double tap sells two 200 grain FMJ loads that are over 1000 fps. The most common recommended size for hunting black bear is a 30+ caliber round, at least 200 grain, and at least 1000 fps. This meets all those requirements. This round would certainly take down a black bear. I have found several cases where black bears were killed in defense by 40 s&w just search the internet. And those were probably much lighter loads than the Double tap hunting ones.
And lastly the 45acp, there was a hunting guide that has a website that wrote a long story on his experiences with hunting black bears with 45acps. He said it would take 3-4 shots, but once again this is in regards to self-defense not hunting. 3-4 shots are not acceptable for hunting.
Sorry for the long post, but it is what we talked about at work.
