Max charge, low velocity...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bayourambler

Bayourambler

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
447
Location
Louisiana
I'm loading for my ruger 30-06 and not getting velocities reached before with factory ammo. I'm new to reloading and have been reading that IMR 4350 usually works well in 30-06. I working my bullets at 3.30 " OAL length. That just fits in my mag without problems. I started at min. charge and worked up to max of 58 grains. Groups were nice at lower ends (around 1") l, but I was only getting 2400 fps . I worked up through the range of powder weights and groups opened up a bit. Finally reaching max of 58 grains , and groups starting to tighten back up,I've only hit 2600 fps! Most data says I should be around 2800. My factory bullets shot 2730. What gives? Can I try a little more powder? There's not much room, but I could fit a little more . I see no signs of high pressure. Is this something to do with me seating the bullet a lil farther out than data says? I do have some IMR 4064. Anyone have luck with it in 30-06?
 
There is no magic trick that will work in every rifle. I suggest trying a different powder and or different bullets. Consult a reloading manual or two. I would study the manuals and find a powder that produces the highest velocity at the lowest pressure with the bullet that I am loading for and start from there. You may never obtain book velocities with your rifle, don't worry about it.

Lafitte
 
Last edited:
You never indicated what bullet wt. With heavier bullets that might be all you're going to get. Factory ammo is generally pretty hot.

I don't use 4064 personally, but many others love it in -06. It might be worth a try. Good luck.
 
Velocity much lower than load data lists is often caused by large barrel groove diameter and/or small biller diameter. Sometimes by using. mislabeled powder.

IMR4064 was/is the favorite powder for 165 to 180'grain bullets for best accuracy.

Factory ammo is not loaded "hot;" just safe.
 
Is that chrono'd velocities or guesstimations from the manual and ammo box? I have seen few rounds that matched factory velocities when fired in a stock gun. The only brand that came close to the printed speed was Weatherby. Recently Hornady has stepped up with some hot loads. Other brands were usually 100- 25-fps slower than advertised. Most testing is done with special barrels and with some of them 4"-6" longer than the standard sporter barrel. When I first started loading I went through the hot load phase. Now I am in the accuracy phase. I don't care how fast that bullet is going as long as it hits where I am looking.
 
The bullets I shot for years were Federal Premium 165 Gamekings. The box showed 2800 fps, my chrony showed 2720. The loads Im working with are with SPEER 165 BTSP. I finally got my hands on the Sierra 165 BTSP. I don't see a spit of difference in the 2, I don't think I will see any shooting difference. I was just hoping to get at least some factory speeds out of my reloads. I know that accuracy is more important, but I would like to get more than 2400 fps out of a 30-06!
 
Chasing velocity is a bad idea, as pressure is unknown.

Upgrade to a larger cartridge for more velocity. There are many in 30 caliber.

Accuracy is more important than velocity.

I am sure you already know this, just a reminder. :)
 
Make sure you pay attention to the details when you attempt to compare muzzle velocity information. Barrel length, bullet brand, and cartridge overall length are very important features that will control the velocity.

I don't know where you've "read" that IMR 4350 is good powder for the 30-06 because it's not a good match, it's far too slow, try IMR 4064.

OK, I see why some people might prefer 4350, it looks like it would be a very low recoiling powder but for a similar velocity 4064 will only recoil slightly more.
 
Last edited:
I agree with 243. I would rather have accurate 30 cal bullets hitting where I want them to hit at 2600 fps than have a miss at 2900. I use IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 in my 308 and 30-06 and I don't know for sure how fast they are going, but I can put 4 rounds (Ruger mag. capacity) into -1" @ 100 yds...
 
FWIW, assuming 165gr/3.3"OAL/ 24" barrel, something's wrong if you're that low.
hv3y9k.jpg

DO NOT USE THIS AS LOAD DATA -- merely a check-6 benchmark
 
mdi said:
I agree with 243. I would rather have accurate 30 cal bullets hitting where I want them to hit at 2600 fps than have a miss at 2900. I use IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 in my 308 and 30-06 and I don't know for sure how fast they are going, but I can put 4 rounds (Ruger mag. capacity) into -1" @ 100 yds...
Click to expand...

Hey Bayouramblr, I used 56.2grs of IMR 4350, CCI LRM primers, behind a Hornady 165gr SPBT in my 30-06 for years before I had a chronograph. In my rifle that’s a very accurate load, and I killed mule deer and pronghorn antelope with it at ranges everywhere from 30 yards, to an honest to goodness, paced off, 460 yards. I think it’s averaging a little better than 2800fps because that’s what my Hornady manuals says. But the fact is, I’ve never shot it across my chronograph (my wife gave me one for Christmas about 20 years ago) because I know myself – I’d be disappointed if I found out my favorite 30-06 deer and antelope round wasn’t as fast as I always thought it was.:)
 
Maybe I missed it but I didn't see where any reference to barrel length of the OP's gun was compared to the factory ammo velocity. Your chrono readings aren't' that far off factory representations depending on barrel length. Keep in mind that the will be a SD for any ammo and all barrels shoot different velocities.
 
Are you using the same primers as the data that you are using? Have you checked your powder scale?

Try seating the bullet to the length listed in the manual and see if that kicks the pressure up a bit. Hodgdon's load data says a start load of 56gr and max of 60gr for the 165 sierra.
 
Also, if you're using a slower-than-normal powder (haven't looked to see where yours falls) a fair amount of crimp may help boost initial pressures as well.
 
Yes sir, I'm sure it will help!:thumbup: I just want to the ol ruger to be the best it can be. My father gave it to me 25 years ago and now Im about to hand it to my son. It's done me well and want to pass it on . I'm sure you understand.
 
@Bayourambler
I don't know what your data source is, but Hodgdon shows a maximum charge of 60 grains IMR-4350 with a 165 grain Sierra. Velocity is given as 2934 fps from a 24 inch barrel.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
macgrumpy said:
I don't know where you've "read" that IMR 4350 is good powder for the 30-06 because it's not a good match, it's far too slow, try IMR 4064.
Click to expand...
Where did you get your "knowledge" that IMR-4350 is far too slow for the 30-06?
You should probably tell the folks running the Hodgdon online reloading data site. According to them, IMR-4350 will push 165 grain bullets faster, at lower pressures than IMR-4064 will.

I love IMR-4064 in 30-06, it gives great accuracy and the pressure curve is suitable for use in Garands, but it's not going to give particularly high velocities, especially with heavier bullets.
 
Swampman said:
@Bayourambler
I don't know what your data source is, but Hodgdon shows a maximum charge of 60 grains IMR-4350 with a 165 grain Sierra. Velocity is given as 2934 fps from a 24 inch barrel.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Where did you get your "knowledge" that IMR-4350 is far too slow for the 30-06?
You should probably tell the folks running the Hodgdon online reloading data site. According to them, IMR-4350 will push 165 grain bullets faster, at lower pressures than IMR-4064 will.

I love IMR-4064 in 30-06, it gives great accuracy and the pressure curve is suitable for use in Garands, but it's not going to give particularly high velocities, especially with heavier bullets.
Click to expand...
I concur. IMR-4350 has been my goto powder for 30-06 since day one. If I have a new 30-06 and it doesn't shoot a 168gr SMK or 165gr Nosler BT over a load of IMR-4350, it is going to need some work.
 
Captcurt said:
Most testing is done with special barrels and with some of them 4"-6" longer than the standard sporter barrel.
Click to expand...
Never heard of that. How did you come to that conclusion? What is the standard for sporter barrels' length?

Most ammo companies I've asked use SAAMI spec test barrels, others barrels of the same spec length.

The main reason people get less velocity is they absorb enough recoil that lessens bullet velocity. Several people will have over 50 fps average velocity spread for each one shooting the same rifle and ammo. A barreled action fixed in place will shoot the same ammo's bullets faster with lower spread than people will shouldering the complete rifle.
 
Last edited:
Bart B. said:
Never heard of that. How did you come to that conclusion? What is the standard for sporter barrels' length?

Most ammo companies I've asked use SAAMI spec test barrels, others barrels of the same spec length.

The main reason people get less velocity is they absorb enough recoil that lessens bullet velocity. Several people will have over 50 fps average velocity spread for each one shooting the same rifle and ammo. A barreled action fixed in place will shoot the same ammo's bullets faster with lower spread than people will shouldering the complete rifle.
Click to expand...
I went thru several manuals and older bookes. Hornady and Speer used stock rifles with 22" barrels for most test. Lyman used Universal receivers and 24" but no mention of brand of barrel. Nosler used 24" Lilja barrels for the 30 cals that I looked at. Big difference in velocities from one manual to another. Some of my old books, we're talking from the 60's, show special pressure barrels that measure 26"- 28" on universal receivers.
 
Bayourambler said:
I'm loading for my ruger 30-06 and not getting velocities reached before with factory ammo. I'm new to reloading and have been reading that IMR 4350 usually works well in 30-06. I working my bullets at 3.30 " OAL length. That just fits in my mag without problems. I started at min. charge and worked up to max of 58 grains. Groups were nice at lower ends (around 1") l, but I was only getting 2400 fps . I worked up through the range of powder weights and groups opened up a bit. Finally reaching max of 58 grains , and groups starting to tighten back up,I've only hit 2600 fps! Most data says I should be around 2800. My factory bullets shot 2730. What gives? Can I try a little more powder? There's not much room, but I could fit a little more . I see no signs of high pressure. Is this something to do with me seating the bullet a lil farther out than data says? I do have some IMR 4064. Anyone have luck with it in 30-06?
Click to expand...

When I read threads like this, I immediately think "chronograph".
 
It's too bad that so many folks think all barrels are bored then rifled to the exact dimensions for a given cartridge. Same for bullet diameters. SAAMI specs typically allows .002" spread in bore and groove diameters and .003" spread in bullet diameters.

All lots of powder don't have the exact energy levels per unit of charge weight across all lots of a given make and type. Same for primers.

Does every bullet seated for a given cartridge have the same amount of neck grip so the force needed to push it out of the neck is exactly the same?

Damn those variables. Congress must do something about that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

H
  • Locked
Max Charge, Low Velocity
Replies
14
Views
599
EricBu
EricBu
KYregular
  • Locked
Nosler Partition
Replies
19
Views
941
Jerry M
J
W
  • Locked
Why is the .35 whelen max pressure so low?
Replies
11
Views
6K
35 Whelen
35 Whelen
S
  • Locked
30-06 Handload Ballistics
Replies
5
Views
2K
Shooter14
S
B
  • Locked
Do not exceed this do not exceed that can we just agree
Replies
5
Views
650
Shoney
S
Back
Top