Maxam CSB-5 Powder question for new reloader

[dansmach]

Hi everyone. I am new to reloading and after reading the books and setting up my new Lee Classic Turret Press I went in search of all the components I needed to start loading 9mm, 380 and 223.

Obviously, powder was the hardest to come by and couldn't find pistol powder anywhere. I went to a local gun show and found a gentleman selling Maxam CSB-1 and CSB-5. After talking with him I purchased 1 lbs of CSB-5 to load my 9mm. I have found load data on that caliber but nothing for 380. Does anybody have any experience with this powder/caliber yet? I contacted American Reloading and they directed me here to this forum.

I was able to find some IMR 3031 at Bass Pro for the 223 rounds but they only had 2 lbs on the shelf. I guess I'll have to buy it when I see it.

I shoot mostly the 9 and 223 but with the limited supply of 380 in my area, I thought I would reload those as well.

Thanks for your help.

Dan

 

[Artofgolf]

Welcome aboard, dansmach Thanks for joining us @ THR!

I've just ordered my first shipment of CSB, so I don't want to reply to your questions.

However, this thread ~ http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=758480 will have some useful info for you from folks that have experience with that specific powder.

Good luck - we hope you enjoy it here

 

[sauer1911]

keep an eye on gunbot.net for powder, primers, et al.

currently they have some pistol powders, but they go fast!

welcome to the fold.

be safe.

 

[dansmach]

Thanks for your replies. I have browsed over that thread a few times in my searches and didn't see anything for 380. I will read it more in depth and hopefully find something for a starting point for 380.

I see what you mean about things selling out fast on gunbot.net. I watched about a dozen of them sell out with just one click of the refresh button.

 

[Artofgolf]

..... I have browsed over that thread a few times in my searches and didn't see anything for 380. I will read it more in depth and hopefully find something for a starting point for 380.

There was a load chart that was included in RN's (I think) post about CSB powder that listed 380 Auto load data. It could of been in the thread that appeared earlier......I'll check again

Update: Try this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=764765

 

[spitballer]

I was able to find some IMR 3031 at Bass Pro for the 223 rounds...

If you're using an AR type rifle, the 3031 is a winner with 55 grain bullets, in fact it was used by the military for the M193 (55gr FMJ) ammo for a time. With a longer barrel you may have to resort to a slow ball powder, especially with softer bullets.

 

[dansmach]

There was a load chart that was included in RN's (I think) post about CSB powder that listed 380 Auto load data. It could of been in the thread that appeared earlier......I'll check again

Update: Try this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=764765

That should work as a good place to start. Thanks. It is for CSB-1 but, Ill start on the low side and go from there.

 

[dansmach]

If you're using an AR type rifle, the 3031 is a winner with 55 grain bullets, in fact it was used by the military for the M193 (55gr FMJ) ammo for a time. With a longer barrel you may have to resort to a slow ball powder, especially with softer bullets.

I am using an AR with a 55gr FMJ bullet. I read here and on other forums that the 3031 was a good powder for this application so I grabbed it when I saw it on the shelf at Bass Pro. Unfortunately, I don't have any brass at the moment to fill. I guess I'm going to have to go empty some out. LOL Thanks for the help!

 

[Potatohead]

Welcome!

Like AoG said, check that thread. Also if I were you I'd PM Nordeste and 1SOW to ask them. They're both cool dudes and would be glad to help Im sure.

Nordeste is in Spain, where either the powder is from, or it's one of the few available to them, cant remember which.

 

[Artofgolf]

........ check that thread. Also if I were you I'd PM Nordeste and 1SOW to ask them. Their both cool dudes and would be glad to help Im sure. Nordeste is in Spain, where either the powder is from, or it's one of the few available to them, cant remember which.

You are correct, Potatohead. Nordeste is a nice fellow who knows a lot about CSB powders Got my order today - here is a copy of the load data sheet that was provided for CSB-1.

(click on image to expand)

 

[dansmach]

Now how does the CSB-5 compare to the 1? According to that data 380 should be 2.4. I would assume then that a good starting point for CSB-5 would be 2.0?

 

[Nordeste]

Maxam, who manufactures the CSB powders, is a Spanish company that sells its products cheaper in the US than it does over here on our own soil .

Thanks for the compliment, Artolfgolf. I wish I knew a lot about anything related to reloading. In fact, I wish I knew a lot about anything in life, but all I've done and can do in the future is passing on my own experience and some other info I've got. I'll be happy if that helps.

Both #5 and #1 will be suitable for the 9 mm. #5 is faster, so it's less forgiving and you'll have to pay closer attention to your loads, so as not to exceed the maximum loads, or in other words, the maximum tolerable pressures. For my personal liking, I prefer #1 for the 9 mm, as I've found out it behaves quite nicely and will be better suited for hotter loads. In fact, it behaves quite well with these.

I don't reload .380 so I can't give you any advice. AFAIK it's a caliber that likes faster powders, so perhaps you've nailed it with #5, and it will serve you well for both 9s (we call .380 "9 corto" over here ).

@ Artofgolf: How comes that I don't see any 9 Luger data on that data sheet?

 

[dansmach]

Thanks Nordeste! I feel better knowing that the 380 likes a faster powder. If there were other powders available I would have gone with something in the book but, beggars can't be choosers.

 

[Nordeste]

You're welcome. That's what I've heard, however, there is people much more knowledgeable here than I am that will, quite likely, advice you much better than I will.

These powders are OK. They're good value for money and they burn cleanly enough. They could meter better, but they still meter decently. Expect +/- 0.15 grain variations with your equipment (maximum), and more often, +/- 0.1 grains.

 

[Artofgolf]

Maxam..... @ Artofgolf: How comes that I don't see any 9 Luger data on that data sheet?

Good question ~ this was the info provided with the powder shipment. You would think the merchant would be more diligent to cultivate business. Thankfully, you mentioned some data in previous posts & RN had other publications that covered 9MM Luger. Life is good....

Corto = short?

 

[Nordeste]

Exactly, "corto" is Spanish for "short".

After having a look at that sheet, I noticed that there are load data for 9 mm IMI... . This cartridge was developed for use in those countries in which the use of military calibers (Italy, for example, Spain, to some extent, as we can and do use the 9 mm Luger) is banned to civilians. The case is 2 mm longer but the bullet is seated 2 mm deeper, so the OAL is the same, so should be the pressures. A bit of Google search, and they are, actually.

So the data for the 9 IMI, IMHO, can be extrapolated to the 9 Luger, so to speak?. Not in my books if we speak CSB-1, or Optima A, for me. 4.0 grains of Optima A won't propel a 124 grain copper plated projectile to 1063 fps. You'll need 4.5 to get close to that. And to get to those 1137 fps that I understand are the maximum load, you need 5.0 grains of Optima A. Been there and done that, and there was no overpressure signs in my cases.

This leads me to the conclusion that there might be some differences in the composition of the CSB-1 that is reaching the US, and the Optima A we are using here, the latter being a tad slower. The good news is you may also have a starting point, though, as usual... proceed cautiously from the bottom and work your way up slowly .

 

[Artofgolf]

I've decided my ladder progression will be 4.4 ~ 4.6 ~ 4.8 ~ 5.0 with the 125g Zero JHP .356 (or Hornady HAP) for initial testing (Glock 19). IMI indicates Israeli Military Industries, a major manufacturer of munitions for the military.

".......need 5.0 grains of Optima A. Been there and done that, and there was no overpressure signs in my cases." Good to know; don't have to worry about losing my fingers

Time to get to work......

 

[1SOW]

CSB-5 with Zero 125 JHP over 4.25 grs reaches around 132PF and shoots well (Pro Chrono Digital). The POWDER is nearly touching the bullet base at that load--1.096"-ish .
My 124 MGs and 124 PDs get very close to the same at near that same seating depth.

All run fine in a short-chambered CZ 75 Shadow Custom. Ejections are consistent with VV n-320 loads.

Corrected case to "POWDER"---duh.

 

[Nordeste]

Artofgolf, I'd probably skip the 5 grains load and stop at the 4.8 grains one. Remember it's the one indicated as maximum load and that, by the looks of it, it seems that Optima A (or at least the current batches, as the older ones sold here were a bit faster) is a bit slower than that CSB-1 you're getting over there. I'd see what happens with the 4.8 grains load, examine my cases and then decide whether or not to go further, and if there is an actual need of going further. My guess is that with 4.5 grains you'll be well over PF and with a nice shooting round.

Just as a note, I got some 145 grains copper plated RN bullets, and I've loaded a few rounds with 3.5 and 3.8 grains. I still have to run them through my Pro Chrono Digital, but, according to the weather forecast, it looks like it won't be anytime soon :banghead:. I'll let you know what happens whenever we get some decent weather.

 

[Artofgolf]

CSB-5 with Zero 125 JHP over 4.25 grs reaches around 132PF and shoots well (Pro Chrono Digital). The case is nearly touching the bullet base at that load--1.096"-ish....

As the CSB-5 is faster, it is probably similar to N-320; I think the CSB-1 is a tad slower, characteristics closer to N-330/340 of viht. Testing will tell.....

 

[Artofgolf]

Artofgolf, I'd probably skip the 5 grains load and stop at the 4.8 grains one. Remember it's the one indicated as maximum load .... :banghead:. I'll let you know what happens ....

Don't worry friend; I like hot rounds & my Glock is a burly rascal, but I will be careful Lookin' forward to your further tests with CSB-1.

 

[Potatohead]

"Burly rascal" -hehehee

Never thought of one of my guns as a burly rascal.

 

[Artofgolf]

"Burly rascal" -hehehee
Never thought of one of my guns as a burly rascal.

C'mon Tater ~ expand your horizons

I'm off to the range tomorrow for some CSB-1 testing with 9MM Luger
Got a good feeling about this Spanish powder olé

 

[dansmach]

Well, after all of this time looking for load data that doesn't exist for .380, I ended up loading up a few rounds using Universal load data and the Lee Pro Auto Disc. The .43 hole gave me a variance of 3.2-3.4 grains. Which was right in the middle of the Universal load data.

Today, after all of the gifts were exchanged and everyone wanting to play with their new toys, we walked out back and shot up a few paper people. The CSB-5 shot great with that charge in the Ruger LCP with no signs of over pressurization. I don't have any chrono measurements but for a quick test at 3.2-3.4 gr, I'd say that is the ticket.

Just thought I'd give a quick update.

 

[alientrainwreck]

I've been loading with the csb-5 for about a month now and I like it very much seems to be a good Powder so far I've loaded the 380,9mm,38spcl and have had great success with velocity's and even more so with accuracy it also is a clean Powder, meters well and gives soft recoil and no smoke. I would go into all the data but I see you've already found its sweet spot for the 380 and for the 9mm I like 4.6grns under a cast 124gn bullet gives me average of 1,073fps this is not a max load but it is very accurate..as for the 38specl I have loaded Everything from 110gn cast on up to 158gn cast bullets, im glad I bought 8lbs of it. I Like it.also if anyone wants any americanreloader.com has it with 10 to 20% off till midnight tonight.