BigRobT
Member
BR, what IF it's Hillary vs Bloomberg ??
MAYOR BLOOMBERG ANNOUNCES THE FILING OF FEDERAL LAWSUIT AGAINST ROGUE GUN DEALERS
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RangerHAAF
Member
There are at least 3 stores that are listed in GA that I've personally bought guns from and one in Savannah, I personally know the owner who is a retired Sergeant-Major from the 3rd Ranger Battalion. This man's character and business ethics are beyond reproach, I don't believe that he would ever intentionally violate the law as described by Bloomberg and his gun hating flunkies.
Anyway, his lawsuit is on borrowed time after it leaves activist Judge Weinstein's courtroom.
Anyway, his lawsuit is on borrowed time after it leaves activist Judge Weinstein's courtroom.
K-Romulus
Member
According to Pillsbury's webpage for the lead lawyer Taber, the lawsuit alleges public nuisance and negligence.
http://www.pillsburylaw(DOT)com/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/portal/ep/profDetail.do?bio=15238
Today's stunt is just a pile-on to the existing crusade.
Pillsbury is just another big firm that gets paid big bucks to defend wealthy clients from plaintiffs trying to seek justice and have their day in court. I find it not surprising that they are now going to try and stomp on these small-time FFL's.
http://www.pillsburylaw(DOT)com/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/portal/ep/profDetail.do?bio=15238
Today's stunt is just a pile-on to the existing crusade.
Pillsbury is just another big firm that gets paid big bucks to defend wealthy clients from plaintiffs trying to seek justice and have their day in court. I find it not surprising that they are now going to try and stomp on these small-time FFL's.
RNB65
Member
I've purchased several firearms from Patriot Services in Richmond. Jim is a fine gentleman who follows all state and federal firearms laws to the letter. If he has to hire a lawyer to defend against this lawsuit, I'll gladly contribute to a legal defense fund on his behalf.
to mayor bloomberg
Mayor Bloomberg,
You should be ashamed. If you win your crusade, you will be known as the man who destroyed the second ammendment and the bill of rights. Perhaps you think our founding fathers are no longer relevant, or that your political career is more important than our constitution. I would not want that to be my legacy. Do you?
You may also wish to consider that in disarming the people, you also disarm the minorities. Perhaps you should consider the experiences of disarmed minorities over the past century. Does the phrase "never again" ring a bell? If you think fascism can't happen here, look in the mirror.:banghead:
Mayor Bloomberg,
You should be ashamed. If you win your crusade, you will be known as the man who destroyed the second ammendment and the bill of rights. Perhaps you think our founding fathers are no longer relevant, or that your political career is more important than our constitution. I would not want that to be my legacy. Do you?
You may also wish to consider that in disarming the people, you also disarm the minorities. Perhaps you should consider the experiences of disarmed minorities over the past century. Does the phrase "never again" ring a bell? If you think fascism can't happen here, look in the mirror.:banghead:
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
BigRobT said:
Twice the pleasure as I will be able to vote against Bloomberg in the Republican primaries and vote against Hillary in the general election. If the general election comes down to that choice, I will definitely be going the third party route.
gunsmith
member
I'm a native new yorker
& I don't even miss it a little.
Dear God please remove the blight of liberalism that infects my home town so I can visit once before I die.
& I don't even miss it a little.
Dear God please remove the blight of liberalism that infects my home town so I can visit once before I die.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
I still can't find a copy of the complaint available online. Anybody seen it yet? Please PM me if you can find the complaint.
crazed_ss
Member
I read that they went in and did straw purchases and captured the stuff on Camera.
If shops are clearly allowing straw purchases, then they need to answer for it. That's the kind of stuff that ruins it for everyone else and gives anti's stuff to use against gun owners.
They'll say "See.. even with rules and regulations, gun shops are knowingly allowing illegal purchases!"
http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=LNA%2FMGArticle%2FLNA_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137836102635&path=!news!archive
New York City hired private investigators to make “straw purchases” at the stores during the past six weeks.
The “straw purchases” involved teams of two investigators posing as customers, with one selecting the gun, directing the purchase and providing the money. The “straw purchaser” filled out the required paperwork and posed as the buyer, according to the release.
The investigators, who wore hidden cameras, reported that two-thirds of the targeted dealers sold to the straw purchaser.
Federal law prohibits licensed dealers from selling guns to people when they have a reasonable belief that the gun being sold is not for the person who purports to be the purchaser.
If shops are clearly allowing straw purchases, then they need to answer for it. That's the kind of stuff that ruins it for everyone else and gives anti's stuff to use against gun owners.
They'll say "See.. even with rules and regulations, gun shops are knowingly allowing illegal purchases!"
http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=LNA%2FMGArticle%2FLNA_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137836102635&path=!news!archive
New York City hired private investigators to make “straw purchases” at the stores during the past six weeks.
The “straw purchases” involved teams of two investigators posing as customers, with one selecting the gun, directing the purchase and providing the money. The “straw purchaser” filled out the required paperwork and posed as the buyer, according to the release.
The investigators, who wore hidden cameras, reported that two-thirds of the targeted dealers sold to the straw purchaser.
Federal law prohibits licensed dealers from selling guns to people when they have a reasonable belief that the gun being sold is not for the person who purports to be the purchaser.
RangerHAAF
Member
I figure the next stop for Bloomberg will be on either 60 Minutes or Dateline. They're not going to confine this fight to the courtroom even though the letter of the law is against them.
K-Romulus
Member
videos are up
the NYC Mayor's website (http://www.nyc(dot)gov/portal/index...i_baseMenuID=27579af732d48f86a62fa24601c789a0) has a video showing two dealers confronted with suspicious buyers.
One dealer refused a sale, and the other made the sale. The "suspicousness" differed slightly in both cases, though. Case #1 was a guy who told the dealer his female companion would be filling out the paperwork. Case #2 was a guy who made known to the dealer that he wasn't a state resident, but that his female companions was a state resident and would fill out the 4473.
It seems that the ATF trace data was used to target the dealers in the sting. However, it is not clear if the guns recovered in NYC were obtained in straw sales from those dealers or were stolen, etc. Those tidbits will come out at trial, probably.
I guess the Pillsbury lawyers are hoping to convince a NYC judge or jury that it is "more likely than not" that the illegal NYC guns were purchased during a straw purchase instead of being stolen from a legal owner. I wonder if there is any info on them being reported stolen . . .
the NYC Mayor's website (http://www.nyc(dot)gov/portal/index...i_baseMenuID=27579af732d48f86a62fa24601c789a0) has a video showing two dealers confronted with suspicious buyers.
One dealer refused a sale, and the other made the sale. The "suspicousness" differed slightly in both cases, though. Case #1 was a guy who told the dealer his female companion would be filling out the paperwork. Case #2 was a guy who made known to the dealer that he wasn't a state resident, but that his female companions was a state resident and would fill out the 4473.
It seems that the ATF trace data was used to target the dealers in the sting. However, it is not clear if the guns recovered in NYC were obtained in straw sales from those dealers or were stolen, etc. Those tidbits will come out at trial, probably.
I guess the Pillsbury lawyers are hoping to convince a NYC judge or jury that it is "more likely than not" that the illegal NYC guns were purchased during a straw purchase instead of being stolen from a legal owner. I wonder if there is any info on them being reported stolen . . .
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Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Yes. The "lawsuit" is unlikely to gain any traction. It is a publicity stunt to embarrass the BATFE into prosecuting the dealers (and not the straw purchasers or illegal tape recorders).
I still cannot find a copy of the complaint.:banghead:
I still cannot find a copy of the complaint.:banghead:
I just picked up a .22 from Jim Jarrett at Partiot Services. I talked to him for an hour or so and he hasn't yet been served any papers but got to see the complaint from another source. The 78 page complaint has three pages pertaining to him. He is not happy about it obviously. He said that at any time, any FFL can be crushed by lawyers because of money. He mentioned the NYC lawyers working for Bloomberg for free. He is hopful that the NRA will come and help out.
He is a great guy and seems to be fastidious in his record keeping (prior life he was an accountant) and is miffed considering he has had ATF agents auditing him every year for 15 years and FBI ect., and never had any problems before Bloomberg got a bug up his butt.
here is a little blurb from the local news and a video clip too...
http://www.nbc12.com/home/2804166.html
"Jarrett of Patriot Services in Richmond says he personally looks over all of his sales at gun shows as does the Virginia State Police. He says he's not afraid of prosecutors, judges or agents, because he hasn't done anything wrong."
have a great day
cavman
He is a great guy and seems to be fastidious in his record keeping (prior life he was an accountant) and is miffed considering he has had ATF agents auditing him every year for 15 years and FBI ect., and never had any problems before Bloomberg got a bug up his butt.
here is a little blurb from the local news and a video clip too...
http://www.nbc12.com/home/2804166.html
"Jarrett of Patriot Services in Richmond says he personally looks over all of his sales at gun shows as does the Virginia State Police. He says he's not afraid of prosecutors, judges or agents, because he hasn't done anything wrong."
have a great day
cavman
Agree about Patriot Services
Jim was always careful to dot "i's" and cross "t's". The whole idea of a straw purchase seems very difficult to identify. Who knows what he purchaser of the gun will really do?
I haven't seen the films, so I can't say.
But on Channel 6, the reporter asked him about the age of his helpers. Guess he's hired 17 yo guys to work the gunshows. Might explain why this got by him, I'd bet that these are transactions he'd normally pass on (he is meticulous records keeper, and errs on the side of caution). I've certainly seen others in the area refuse sales when it was obvious what was going on.
Jim was always careful to dot "i's" and cross "t's". The whole idea of a straw purchase seems very difficult to identify. Who knows what he purchaser of the gun will really do?
I haven't seen the films, so I can't say.
But on Channel 6, the reporter asked him about the age of his helpers. Guess he's hired 17 yo guys to work the gunshows. Might explain why this got by him, I'd bet that these are transactions he'd normally pass on (he is meticulous records keeper, and errs on the side of caution). I've certainly seen others in the area refuse sales when it was obvious what was going on.
Cacique500
Member
You need to put a warning on that video... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I'm in Stroudsburg, and was walking past Dunkelburgers in the midst of a local reporter filing a story about the case. There were 2 other local (or relatively local) reporters either waiting to do or that just finished their own stories.
It will be interesting to see how this all pans out over the next few weeks. I assume if they were extremely negligent about a 'straw purchase' there could be major repercussions to the store.
It will be interesting to see how this all pans out over the next few weeks. I assume if they were extremely negligent about a 'straw purchase' there could be major repercussions to the store.
K-Romulus
Member
sorry about that
I thought more people knew about the "no link back" thing. I would rather not have NYC or Pillsbury see where their traffic is coming from, so I did take out a "dot" from the link. Where I have"(dot)" should be a "." (like what cavman said)
What kind of warning should the video get?
I thought more people knew about the "no link back" thing. I would rather not have NYC or Pillsbury see where their traffic is coming from, so I did take out a "dot" from the link. Where I have"(dot)" should be a "." (like what cavman said)
What kind of warning should the video get?
Cacique500
Member
It's extremely emotionally distressing for any gun owner to watch (contains Schumer and Bloomberg)...and you need to make sure you're wearing your hip waders 'cause it gets deep pretty fast...
You'll also hear a lot of 'for officer safety' and 'for our children'
Master Blaster
Member
A couple of yeaqrs ago the New York times ran an article on crime gun traces in NYC and surrounding area. It seemed that most of the crime guns being traced by the NCIS had originally been sold by a large NYC gunstore. This gunstore was run by X-NYC police officers and employed active officers partime at the counter. They would not even let folks who did not have an NYC pistol permit even look at a gun let alone buy it. Many of the guns had been sold 10, 15 even 20 years ago.
But in any event it was the big very strict politically connected gunshop in NYC that was the originator of most of the "crime" guns traced.
I cant think of the name of the store but they are not even mentioned here
Wonder why?????
But in any event it was the big very strict politically connected gunshop in NYC that was the originator of most of the "crime" guns traced.
I cant think of the name of the store but they are not even mentioned here
Wonder why?????
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
I still can't find a copy of the complaint. :banghead:
I did find this Yahoo article* that reveals that the case has been assigned to the infamous Judge Weinstein in the Eastern District of NY.
What would otherwise be a straightforward dismissal for lack of personal jurisdiction, lack of subject matter jurisdiction, and failure to state a claim on which relief can be granted will be allowed to drag on with the prospect of bankrupting the gun dealers. 
*http://biz.yahoo.com/law/060516/990e40f27794e95b587afed91f11acbd.html?.v=1
I did find this Yahoo article* that reveals that the case has been assigned to the infamous Judge Weinstein in the Eastern District of NY.
What would otherwise be a straightforward dismissal for lack of personal jurisdiction, lack of subject matter jurisdiction, and failure to state a claim on which relief can be granted will be allowed to drag on with the prospect of bankrupting the gun dealers. *http://biz.yahoo.com/law/060516/990e40f27794e95b587afed91f11acbd.html?.v=1
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
A copy of the complaint is attatched. The civil cover sheet filed with it listed the other case NYC has pending before Judge Weinstein as a "related case" so it would be automatically assigned to him.
I'm not sure how we can contribute to the defeat of Bloomberg's evil cause. "Justice" from Judge Weinstein is not possible, so legal tactics are futile until an appeal. The "Court of Public Opinion" is asleep on this and apathetic when awakened.
I'm interested in ideas.
I'm not sure how we can contribute to the defeat of Bloomberg's evil cause. "Justice" from Judge Weinstein is not possible, so legal tactics are futile until an appeal. The "Court of Public Opinion" is asleep on this and apathetic when awakened.
I'm interested in ideas.
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