odysseus
Member
Well said.
MAYOR BLOOMBERG ANNOUNCES THE FILING OF FEDERAL LAWSUIT AGAINST ROGUE GUN DEALERS
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Well said.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Hmmm, looks like pretty much every cause of action stated in the complaint is already covered by the Frivlous Lawsuit law that passed not so long ago. Of course, Judge Weinstein has already declared the suit against Colt isn't covered by that law so I am sure he will have no trouble allowing this suit to go forward as well.
It is a shame that because of one judge with an obvious bias that none of these people will be able to get a fair trial until they either get a new judge or appeal the decision.
It looks like NYC just went around with a guy and a girl looking at guns. The guy would do all the talking and then the girl would buy. Anybody who allowed that sale to go through got sued. They avoided actually breaking the law by not having the woman actually transfer the gun (so no straw purchase ever took place).
I don't think they have much chance of winning ultimately; but I am sure they knew that. I imagine their main goal is to allow Bloomberg to grandstand and to chill gun sales in general by making gun dealers afraid to sell to anyone.
It is a shame that because of one judge with an obvious bias that none of these people will be able to get a fair trial until they either get a new judge or appeal the decision.
It looks like NYC just went around with a guy and a girl looking at guns. The guy would do all the talking and then the girl would buy. Anybody who allowed that sale to go through got sued. They avoided actually breaking the law by not having the woman actually transfer the gun (so no straw purchase ever took place).
I don't think they have much chance of winning ultimately; but I am sure they knew that. I imagine their main goal is to allow Bloomberg to grandstand and to chill gun sales in general by making gun dealers afraid to sell to anyone.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
In every one of their "simulated straw purchases," if the FFL committed a crime, so did both of the "investigators." I'd love to see them charged locally by a prosecutor with some guts. 
Frankly, I'm left with the conclusion that "gun trafficing" would stop if NYC repealled all of its stupid and unConstitutional prohibitions. They also make it look to me like "gun trafficing" is a downright patriotic thing to do.
I'm confident that our founding fathers would agree.
There are many other legal criticisms I could point out, but it is useless in Weinstein's kangaroo court.
Frankly, I'm left with the conclusion that "gun trafficing" would stop if NYC repealled all of its stupid and unConstitutional prohibitions. They also make it look to me like "gun trafficing" is a downright patriotic thing to do.
I'm confident that our founding fathers would agree.There are many other legal criticisms I could point out, but it is useless in Weinstein's kangaroo court.
B
boofus
Guest
The New York gun trafficking would stop if other states would pass laws making it legal to shoot on sight anyone from New York. Especially the politicians.
I predict after a year of that law no NY criminal or slimy gungrabber would dare venture into another state to commit crimes. Problem solved and no American lost their rights.
I predict after a year of that law no NY criminal or slimy gungrabber would dare venture into another state to commit crimes. Problem solved and no American lost their rights.
cbsbyte
Member
Except you would be violating the rights of the people from NYS. Please keep dumb comments like this to yourself. This only reinforces the stereotype of gun owners as ignorent rednecks that are a danger to everyone because of their radical ideas.
svtruth
Member
500 Crime guns
in seven years is 71 crime guns per year, divided by 15 stores is <5 crime guns/store/year.
That hardly seems a flood.
in seven years is 71 crime guns per year, divided by 15 stores is <5 crime guns/store/year.
That hardly seems a flood.
Master Blaster
Member
Judge Weinstein is a federal judge right???
Isnt there a process for filing for the impeachment of a federal judge if the judge ignores the law on a regular basis???
Isnt there a process for filing for the impeachment of a federal judge if the judge ignores the law on a regular basis???
K-Romulus
Member
Especially in Patriot Services' case, where they sell 3000 firearms a year, and NYC claims that 50 have been seized between 1994 and 2005.
50 out of 30000 = "numbers that far exceed recoveries for other comparably-situated retail gun dealers"?!
The complain charges Patriot Services with negigence for having an apparent 16 y/o handle the 4473, while someone else handles the sale.
The complaint alleges three causes of action:
1) Public Nuisance, (based on a state "Penal Law")
2) Criminal Nuisance (under NYS law!)
3) negligence per se based on the violation of the state criminal nuisance law (!)
4) Generic negligence
5) Negligence Entrustment
As for Pillsbury's "pro bono" effort, of course the relief sought includes "reasonable attorney's fees." I am not surprised, since 1/4 of their litigation department is involved in this case. The litigation department is a huge source of revenue for the firm that is tied up in this case "for free."
B
boofus
Guest
You mean blue state filth gets mad too when people in OTHER states try to dictate what rights they should or shouldn't have?
Hi pot. Hi kettle.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Master Blaster said:
In this case, the bill made an exception for FFLs who broke the law in selling guns. NYC's answer to that was to say selling guns was a "public nuisance" and then argue that FFLs were breaking this law. Even though the city had never advanced that argument before, Judge Weinstein agreed and declared that the previous gun suits fell under that exception.
You'll notice this complaint alleges the same thing pretty much and is in Judge Weinstein's court, so I would expect the same result.
As far as impeaching goes, the House brings charges and the Senate tries the case with the Vice-President presiding. A 2/3 vote of the Senate is necessary to convict and not just any crime will do, it must be "treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors." From a political perspective, it would be real unlikely to happen and moreso in an election year.
Zundfolge
Member
MrTuffPaws said:
So is Ron Paul. What's your point?
I just watched those videos finally. Firefox doesn't leave the address up there when the link doesn't work so I couldn't edit. Had to copy over to Explorer. I have never heard of the "no direct linking" bunk.
Anyway, The first guy who refused the sale I thought was being pretty cautious. If the 2nd person comes up and says "I am buying the gun. It is for me." How can you refuse the sale? The 2nd guy screwed up by handling the transaction completely with the man and only involved the woman in the paperwork. I guess it is a little suspicious when the woman didn't even handle the gun or hardly look at it. I don't have the experience to judge that too much though. I can see where that could easily happen legitimately as well.
Bring up another question for FFL holders: How often do you get a man and a woman come in where the man is buying a gun for the woman or helping the woman buy a gun? How do you tell the difference between that and a straw purchase?
Anyway, The first guy who refused the sale I thought was being pretty cautious. If the 2nd person comes up and says "I am buying the gun. It is for me." How can you refuse the sale? The 2nd guy screwed up by handling the transaction completely with the man and only involved the woman in the paperwork. I guess it is a little suspicious when the woman didn't even handle the gun or hardly look at it. I don't have the experience to judge that too much though. I can see where that could easily happen legitimately as well.
Bring up another question for FFL holders: How often do you get a man and a woman come in where the man is buying a gun for the woman or helping the woman buy a gun? How do you tell the difference between that and a straw purchase?
One other question: Isn't it only a straw purchase if the gun shop owner suspects the person not doing the paperwork cannot legally buy a gun?
I guess I have a problem with the fact that the gov is forcing FFL's to enforce the law themselves far beyond reasonable precautions.
I guess I have a problem with the fact that the gov is forcing FFL's to enforce the law themselves far beyond reasonable precautions.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
The ATF says no, even if the other person could legally buy it, it is an illegal straw purchase.
K-Romulus
Member
all right
I don't know why this was such a big deal, but here are the direct links:
Video of the sales (both good and bad):
http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2006a/media/pc051506-ATF300k.asx
Mayor's office website with archived press conference video:
http://www.nyc.gov/portal/index.jsp...i_baseMenuID=27579af732d48f86a62fa24601c789a0
I apologize for the confusion . . .
I don't know why this was such a big deal, but here are the direct links:
Video of the sales (both good and bad):
http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2006a/media/pc051506-ATF300k.asx
Mayor's office website with archived press conference video:
http://www.nyc.gov/portal/index.jsp...i_baseMenuID=27579af732d48f86a62fa24601c789a0
I apologize for the confusion . . .
I feel kind of bad for the guy running Patriot Services. Haven't dealt with him - his transfer fees are too high - but all the same he seems like a decent guy. Expecting that the NRA will ride in to help him out is not the way to go. Call me cynical but I just don't think the NRA will be putting up much of a fight for him or anyone else in this case.
BigRobT
Member
Things that make you go, "hmmmm"
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/0518edequal.html
N.Y. gun suit all about headlines
By ALAN GOTTLIEB
Published on: 05/18/06
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg's lawsuit against 15 alleged "rogue" firearms dealers in five states is political grandstanding run amok.
The press and prosecutors in those five states ought to be asking Bloomberg why, if his investigators had positively identified these retailers and caught them in an illegal act, was the information not turned over to the proper authorities, including the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives?
Instead, the headline-hunting Bloomberg launched a civil lawsuit in what should be, if he is to be believed, a criminal action.
There's a reason for that. The private investigators New York hired to conduct this sting must have made deliberately false statements on federal firearms purchase forms. That's a felony. They should be prosecuted. If Bloomberg sent them to do this, he's an accessory, if not a conspirator.
Given Bloomberg's anti-gun history, and that of New York's previous unsuccessful efforts to sue firearms manufacturers, he is turning his attention to retailers. Yet, his ultimate goal remains the same, and it has nothing to do with stopping criminals.
His intent, and that of his cheerleaders, is to demonize gun owners and ultimately drive gun manufacturers out of business while destroying the individual right to keep and bear arms in the process.
Behind this pathetic charade is Bloomberg's hope of stopping federal legislation that would prevent cities from gaining access to firearms tracing data. He and other anti-gun mayors want to conduct legal fishing expeditions to bolster junk lawsuits against gun makers, which Congress outlawed last year. Those data are available to law enforcement agencies conducting bona fide criminal investigations, and he knows it.
The National Shooting Sports Foundation has a superb program called "Don't Lie for the Other Guy," aimed at stopping illegal gun purchases. Bloomberg prefers not to cooperate with the gun industry to catch criminals, but to grab headlines in what can only be described as a campaign that is hideously bloated with flash, but deplorably lacking in substance.
• Alan Gottlieb is founder of the Second Amendment Foundation.
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/0518edequal.html
N.Y. gun suit all about headlines
By ALAN GOTTLIEB
Published on: 05/18/06
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg's lawsuit against 15 alleged "rogue" firearms dealers in five states is political grandstanding run amok.
The press and prosecutors in those five states ought to be asking Bloomberg why, if his investigators had positively identified these retailers and caught them in an illegal act, was the information not turned over to the proper authorities, including the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives?
Instead, the headline-hunting Bloomberg launched a civil lawsuit in what should be, if he is to be believed, a criminal action.
There's a reason for that. The private investigators New York hired to conduct this sting must have made deliberately false statements on federal firearms purchase forms. That's a felony. They should be prosecuted. If Bloomberg sent them to do this, he's an accessory, if not a conspirator.
Given Bloomberg's anti-gun history, and that of New York's previous unsuccessful efforts to sue firearms manufacturers, he is turning his attention to retailers. Yet, his ultimate goal remains the same, and it has nothing to do with stopping criminals.
His intent, and that of his cheerleaders, is to demonize gun owners and ultimately drive gun manufacturers out of business while destroying the individual right to keep and bear arms in the process.
Behind this pathetic charade is Bloomberg's hope of stopping federal legislation that would prevent cities from gaining access to firearms tracing data. He and other anti-gun mayors want to conduct legal fishing expeditions to bolster junk lawsuits against gun makers, which Congress outlawed last year. Those data are available to law enforcement agencies conducting bona fide criminal investigations, and he knows it.
The National Shooting Sports Foundation has a superb program called "Don't Lie for the Other Guy," aimed at stopping illegal gun purchases. Bloomberg prefers not to cooperate with the gun industry to catch criminals, but to grab headlines in what can only be described as a campaign that is hideously bloated with flash, but deplorably lacking in substance.
• Alan Gottlieb is founder of the Second Amendment Foundation.
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
So is Ron Paul. What's your point?
~Zundfolge
I love it.
The two parties are coalitions. Zel Miller and Nacy Pelosi.
Bloomberg and Paul.
The parties mean nothing. They are only a vehicle for getting more money to already often fairly well off people by using the coercive force of government to gain advantages for them they couldn't pick up in the marketplace.
~Zundfolge
I love it.
The two parties are coalitions. Zel Miller and Nacy Pelosi.
Bloomberg and Paul.
The parties mean nothing. They are only a vehicle for getting more money to already often fairly well off people by using the coercive force of government to gain advantages for them they couldn't pick up in the marketplace.
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