MB coated bullets ...

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biogenic

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Purchased some coated 9mm bullets for the first time from MB and I am getting leading just after 100 rounds. I can smell the coating burning up...

I'm using 4.1 TG 1.08 oal. I am not scraping any of the bullets when I seat them.

Any advice ? I''ve been using xtreme till now with great success..
 
I have the same thing with my 45 acp and MBC coated bullets. I use titegroup powder. Wonder if it's something with the powder?
 
I've read TiteGroup burns hot - Maybe that's the issue.

I cast and coat with RAL, never noticed any smell with:

Bullseye
D032
HP-38/231
CSB-1
Powerpistol
True Blue
Longshot
 
Very well might be the Titegroup as it is a high nitro (energy) powder and does have a rep for burning hot.

231 would be a great choice.
 
I've read TiteGroup burns hot - Maybe that's the issue.

I cast and coat with RAL, never noticed any smell with:

Bullseye
D032
HP-38/231
CSB-1
Powerpistol
True Blue
Longshot
Duvel, have you experienced any leading with the powders you mentioned? Don't mind the smell that much, the reason I got the coated bullets is to avoid cleaning lead..
 
Nada, zero, zilch!

I'm running BHN 11 coated with RAL full-go (1,500+) in my 10 and 9 (1,350+).

Shot thousands with no issues.
 
Nada, zero, zilch!

I'm running BHN 11 coated with RAL full-go (1,500+) in my 10 and 9 (1,350+).

Shot thousands with no issues.

Good to hear. I'll switch powders...
 
I've been using coated bullets from a different maker. They preceed MissouriBullets in the coating business by a few years so the coating may or may not be the same stuff. They claim it is proprietary.

Anyway, they warn against a couple powder choices due to their tendancy to cause more smoke and odor than others. Titegroup is one of them.

They go on to list recommended powders as well.
 
I've been using coated bullets from a different maker. They preceed MissouriBullets in the coating business by a few years so the coating may or may not be the same stuff. They claim it is proprietary.

Anyway, they warn against a couple powder choices due to their tendancy to cause more smoke and odor than others. Titegroup is one of them.

They go on to list recommended powders as well.
Recommended Powders
Any powders for cast lead bullets will work.
Vihtavuori – N-320/N-340
Ramshot – Competition/Zip
Winchester – WST
Alliant – American Select/Power Pistol
Hodgdon – Universal Clays/HP38

Not Recommended Powders
Hodgdon – Titegroup
Vihtavuori – N-310
 
I use to get frustrated from lead fouling. Usually Titegroup was the powder. I was about to give up using lead bullets.

Then I thought, what the heck, and tried Ramshot Silhouette in 38 Spl. Shot some MCB 158 gr. SWC with Silhouette, and the barrel was just as clean as shooting plated bullets.

I knew not all fast powders caused leading. I have loaded several different types of lead bullets in 45 Auto using WST with no leading problems.

So now, with all your post about Titegroup, I see it wasn't all about me. :D
 
Coated bullets absolutely will leave lead deposits in my experience, so you are not seeing anything particularly strange. Although I have never used Titegroup powder, I have done considerable testing with MBC coated bullets using 700-X, W452, W473, 2400, Unique, HS-7, Accurate No.5 and a few other powders, and the results have all been the same. Some leading is ALWAYS there.

I, too, smell the coating when shooting these - horrible stench to me; I much prefer the smoke and the smell of normal lead bullet lube. But the MBC coated bullets are significantly more accurate in all of my guns than their normal lead bullets, so I put up with the stink. And even though I still see leading with the coated bullets, it is much less than the same loads with uncoated bullets.

MBC are the only coated bullets I have tried, so I cannot say if other coatings are better or not.
 
Another thing to consider is that what you are seeing might not be leading. It could be residue from the coating cooked to the barrel. That might not be any better of a situation though. Some of that stuff can be hard to scrub out too.
 
I load 4.1 gr. of TG with AOL of 1.120" using Acme coated bullets and get no leading or smell. I used to use Missouri lead bullets (and still have some to use up) with AOL of 1.100" and got no leading. The Acme bullets seem to be more accurate and of course a lot cleaner to handle when loading than lead. I chose the Acme coated bullets because of having no lube groove.
 
I'll call BS to the temperature of Titegroup causing the "leading". If you are truly getting real leading, something is grossly wrong with the bullets. The smell may be flame cut polymer coating. The flame never stays in contact with the bullet long enough to melt the lead even with bare lubed lead bullets. A typical pistol bullet in a 4" barrel exits in less than 4 milliseconds. The big problem is FIT. If the bullet is smaller than the grooves of the barrel, you will get gas cutting of the bullet around the gaps. Plating and jacketing will cut less than lead or polymer. Lead is the softest and most vulnerable to gas cutting.

Are you having problems cleaning the fouling up? Try running a patch with your favorite cleaner through the bore. If it cleans out easily, you don't have a problem. If that doesn't work, try a bore mop with a couple of strands of Copper Chore Boy or bronze wool. If the dust comes out is sparkly, it's lead and there is something definitely wrong. Before I took up casting, I noticed that Bear Creek Moly Coated bullets tended to smear polymer on my barrel grooves but it cleaned up easily with the bore mop/Chore Boy.

I tested some Titegroup on Friday with my M&P 9. My barrel slugged at 0.3545" and I used powder coated bullets sized to 0.358" seated to where the cone meets the case rim so than none of the 0.358" part of the bullet sat above the rim. I also used a 38 S&W expansion plug in the 9mm PTX die to open the case up before seating and the Lee taper crimp die (NOT the Factory Crimp Die) to close the flare. I used some surplus Sherwin Williams powder @ $2/#. The pigment is uneven, but the coating gives 100% coverage.
0a68818b-a814-42b0-be8f-ed476f2ad293_zpsa9pseik6.jpg

You can see the slight bulge of the brass where the bullets are seated. Yes, the bullets still pass the plunk test and headspace on the rim
2c60c0aa-5eda-4fef-8e66-ecc978fdd1c6_zpsd0n37avx.jpg

I was more interested in the MV so I only tested 20 shots but this is what the barrel looked like when I brought it home.
20 shots 3.5g Titegroup= 1099 fps ave. MV, 3.7g Titegroup = 1117 fps ave. MV
aff9be73-e3a0-4156-b479-09ffbb3bf16d_zpsdbv6jglf.jpg

I simply took a piece of paper towel, wadded it up and pushed it through the barrel once with a rod.
You can see a section of the paper towel below the barrel at the 4 o'clock position
a68ff845-c197-453a-b11f-97d4994cec88_zpsgzgzky9q.jpg

FIT IS KING. You might be able to get away with a slightly smaller bullet if it bumps up due to pressure. Jackets, plating or powder coat help resist gas cutting, but sealing off the gases is the best way to prevent leading and metallic fouling in barrels.

If you ever intend to shoot anything other than jacketed or plated bullets, get some egg sinkers, slug your barrel and be aware that using bullets smaller than the groove diameter might give you problems.
 
I have shot about 3k MBC coated Zingers out of a pair 686 .357 revolvers in the past year. I have not cleaned the bores. They have no leading. FWIW, I am using BE -86 powder. They averge 1284 fps when I clocked them....Yes, I can smell them.

I had not checked the 7" 686 with a Burris FastFire III for zero in months. Yesterday, I shot it from a rest at 50 yards. The Zinger load shot a 1.5" group. I have no reason to look for another bullet or load. I love the price and the results....I have loaded about 1k this week and plan to knock out 500 more today.
 
Excellent post rsrocket1.

I'm casting 356-120 (Lee mold, BHN 11), coating with RAL (shake n bake), THEN sizing to .356.

It must be a good combination for my "haven't slugged it yet" bore because after thousands down the pipe there is no reason to mop the bore, it's that clean.

Numerous powders, loaded from plinkers to hum-dingers. I'm absolutely sold on the process :)
 
In order for the coating to burn off AND result in leading the temperature and duration of the flame would have to be far longer than that experienced in the length of a barrel. Furthermore, leading itself is a product of the powder load/bullet combination being incorrect (in several ways) relative to the gun it occurs in.

The coating does act as a lube, so it is possible to smell it occasionally. Somewhere out there is a video that a company did (Acme I think) where they test the coating on one of their bullets with a torch. In that video the lead melts before the coating gives way. Just some food for thought.
 
Leading is from hot gasses getting past the bullet because it isn't sealing the bore, causing cutting of the bullet just like a cutting torch, depositing the molten lead in your barrel.

As noted, it doesn't burn it from the base.

That said, some powders play better with lead than others.
 
I got in another 50 rounds of shooting Titegroup today before the rain came in. This time it was 4.2g under a Lee 401-175-TC powder coated and sized but seated pretty deep again with a 1.10" COL. Didn't have time to set up the chrony but it feels like my typical 900-950 fps loads. I shot the 50 rounds within about 10 minutes but noticed that the slide and barrel was no hotter than my usual loads of Unique or Red Dot (quite a bit cooler actually). The barrel had a nice deposit of what was probably polymer in the groove (not metallic looking)
0972e15c-1a6e-4804-982d-b3fcf4fc0ca6_zps0kbn9hog.jpg

This stuff was a bit more stubborn and did require the bore mop with bronze wool. About 4-5 up and down scrubs and clean as a whistle.

668aff5b-6fc4-423a-a507-970fedda9ec7_zpsehw7f0rc.jpg
 
They have no leading. FWIW, I am using BE -86 powder. They averge 1284 fps when I clocked them....Yes, I can smell them

7.0gr of be86 is my second favorite in my 357s... my #1 is 13.5 grains of 2400 ;)

Well, someone suggested perhaps they were not properly "cured".... in any event,
I'll try some with 5.2 of unique and 4.1 grains of hp38 and see where that would get me.

I''ll update once I've concluded my test in the new batch... I'll certainly try out Acme and Bayou in my next purchase rounds.
 
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